TCC 24. Uncharted - Dr. Francisco Javier de Alba

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Welcome to the Theorist-Composer Collaboration, a podcast interview series highlighting modern

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composers and their compositions.

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My name is Aaron DiZarrilla, I'm the host of this podcast and also a graduate music

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theory student at Florida State University.

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Today I will be talking with the composer Dr. Francisco Aviar de Alba who, alongside

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his piece Uncharted, is the featured guest for this episode.

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We discuss his background, what a diverse perspective in music means, career anxiety,

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expression and composition, and much more.

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So without further ado, this is an excerpt from Uncharted, and welcome to the TCC.

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Uncharted The Lena Legislature

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Again, the music that you were just listening to is an excerpt from the piece titled Uncharted

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by the composer, Dr. Francisco Javier de Alba, who, alongside their music, is the featured

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guest for this episode.

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That leads me to welcome Dr. Francisco Javier de Alba, also known as Paco themselves, to

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the program.

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How are you?

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Hi, I'm doing very well.

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How about yourself?

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I'm doing excellent on this fine Tallahassee morning.

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It's pouring outside.

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How is it over in Arizona?

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Oh, it's in the hundreds.

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It's nice and hot, but actually what's kind of funny is everyone around me has been saying,

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ah, fall's finally here.

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It's cooling down.

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I'm just like, we're still in 100 degree weather.

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Yeah, okay.

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Well, I take back my griping, I'd much rather have a dreary 75 degree day than a 100 degree

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Arizona day, no offense.

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However, and as we talked about before, Paco is fine, right?

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Correct, yeah.

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Most everyone calls me Paco.

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For legal reasons, I like to just throw in Francisco Javier just in case someone else

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needs to find me.

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But yeah, for the most part, everyone, like my family growing up, everyone's called me

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Paco, even my students call me Dr. Paco.

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So yeah, Paco's fine.

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Just checking, just checking.

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All right, well, how about you go ahead and introduce yourself personally, professionally,

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academically, however you choose.

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Sure.

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So like I said, I'm Dr. Paco.

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I have a passion for teaching, performing, and composing.

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I'm a clarinetist, international performer, and self-published composer.

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I currently reside in Phoenix, Arizona, where I teach a studio of almost 40 students.

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I perform with our local symphony orchestra.

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I run a small business selling my sheet music and composing music for various musicians

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and ensembles.

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Forty?

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Yeah, it used to be right at 40, and I kind of had to cut it down because I was kind of

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teaching myself to death.

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Forty is crazy.

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That's a lot.

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A lot of students, all clarinet.

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Yeah, the majority was clarinet at that point.

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So I also teach piano, and sometimes I teach composition as well.

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Piano is a little less frequent, but sometimes you get students that are all of a sudden

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they're like, hey, I wrote this thing.

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Is it a thing?

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And I'm like, yeah, you just did a thing.

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That's really cool.

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Let's talk about it.

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Sure, sure.

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You know, what's the...

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I'm just picking at some of the things that you said.

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Small business selling your sheet music.

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Is that through your website, or do you have a separate publisher?

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What's going on with that?

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Yeah.

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So kind of when I decided to start selling my music as a composer, I read a blog post

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way back when I was...

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Gosh, I would have been in either middle school or high school, or just getting into high

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school.

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I just started being interested in composing.

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It was actually John Mackey's blog post about his journey with self-publishing.

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And so that always stuck with me, and I just kind of put it in the back of my mind.

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And I was like, well, if I ever become a composer in the future, which probably won't happen,

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I want to be self-published because I want to be in charge of my music.

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And so yeah, when my career started developing, I found myself like, okay, I'm ready to sell

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my music.

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And then yeah, I set up my website and I do all the printing, I do all the score editing,

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I do all the binding, I do all the mailing.

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And so yeah, it's definitely become a small business in the sense of it's another part

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of my music career I wasn't expecting to be in charge of, but I'm happy and it's very

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fulfilling, full circle moment for my younger self reading that blog post.

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Very cool.

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Very cool.

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I could go down a whole rabbit hole about that, about the whole e-commerce side of the

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music business when it comes to that.

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I get, personally, I get like a couple dollars every month from Sheet Music Plus because

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of some pop music arrangements that I have published up there.

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They're not fantastic.

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Oh, but...

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Oh, okay.

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From many years ago, but just, yeah.

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Anyways, I find that stuff very, very fascinating.

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We talked about yourself as a small businessman, of course a performer with a rather sizable

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studio.

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I don't think universities have that big of a studio and if they do, they have lots of

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different assistants.

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So that's quite a lot of work.

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But let's bring it back around to you as a composer.

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How would you describe yourself as a composer and largely your music?

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That is a great question.

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And I've had...

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So we will ask me, when they approached me to write music for them, I'm like, well, how

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would you describe your style?

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What's your genre that you fit into?

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And we had kind of talked about in our preliminary conversations about how I definitely struggle

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with that question in the sense that a lot of my music, it's hard to pinpoint, at least

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for me, where I fit into a genre.

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And so the best way that I can describe my music and how I am compositionally is kind

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of just talk about my upbringing with music and what I've listened to.

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And I think all of that kind of has slowly seeped into my brain and that's now as I write,

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that's what kind of comes out.

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So I grew up in a religious family and so I grew up listening to a lot of hymns and

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church music and a lot of Christian pop.

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And so that's definitely in my brain.

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And then on top of that, I have a lot of what's called OPM or original Filipino music that

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I listened to growing up.

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And that kind of seeped into my brain.

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And then when I went to, I would say when I went to study music in college, studying

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Western music, going through the Oxford Music History book, definitely starting with Guru

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Rinchand and then ending up all the way in modern music and surrealism and all that stuff

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in 12 tone.

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I definitely gravitated and kind of pulled in a lot of those different genres, every

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aspect of studying through them and all the different music.

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I just kind of absorbed everything and just loved all the music.

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So I just love every genre and even outside of classical, quote unquote, classical music

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or art music, even just pop music and rock and thinking about punk music and emo music.

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That was definitely in high school, everyone kind of goes through that stage.

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And so all of that just kind of seeped into me and my ears and I just kind of kept grabbing

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all the different things that I liked and make me feel happy and kind of make me feel

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fulfilled in music.

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And so, yeah, I kind of take that and then inject it into my music.

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But with the sense of because I have so many interests and so many different genres that

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I like and listen to, it's easy for me when I'm writing for someone, I kind of try to

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tailor it to what they like to listen to and what they like to play.

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I have a lot of kind of things I can draw from when someone says, I really like John

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Cage and experimental music.

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I'm like, okay, well, let's explore that.

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Or like if they're just like, you know, I really like Katy Perry or like if I really

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like Lady Gaga or Beyonce, I'm just like, okay, let's explore that in art music, you

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know.

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Sure, sure.

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And I want to attach on to at the release of this episode here with Dr. Paco, the previous

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episode two weeks prior would have been or is not would have been is the second TCC roundtable

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where myself and two others, Albert Wheeler and Dr. Melo Morelos, we talk about the classical

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canon and issues in and around that.

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Now I'm not going to rehash all that, but you know, you talk about how your upbringing

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you came from and let's load up some terms here, a non-traditional background in that

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you're multifaceted.

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It's not just one thing and it's certainly not just Western European art music.

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And so my question is, is what what is your perspective on the intersection and playing

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within and outside of that classical canon?

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I mean, the audience can't see this because this is podcast, but you could probably see

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behind me here in my workroom, I have a poster back there that says at the top, the great

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composers.

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And it's all of the stereotypes that you can imagine.

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They are great composers, but it's also a very purposely exclusive list.

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So take that as you will.

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But I'm just asking what your thoughts are on that.

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Yeah, that's a great question.

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And you know, even me, sometimes I get uncomfortable with what's OK to say or how to describe myself.

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So it's kind of funny too.

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Sometimes I'll just Google, I'm like, is it OK to say I'm like multiracial or is it OK

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to say I'm a mixed person?

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And kind of the overall, it's kind of like if the person themselves is saying it about

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themselves, it's usually OK.

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So for me, I have a very diverse background in that both my parents are immigrants and

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I've grown up with three languages in our household.

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My dad speaks Spanish, Tagalog, which is Filipino and English, and then my mom speaks Tagalog

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and English.

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And so at one point, my grandfather was living with us and he spoke Spanish.

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And so I grew up with that kind of aspect of different cultures kind of colliding even

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just in my own household.

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And with that comes different forms of art that get presented.

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So I grew up listening to a lot of kind of Spanish Flamenco music.

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And that also is another kind of part of my kind of self that I'm trying to rediscover

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is like my Spanish heritage, but also for the longest time, I kind of connected more

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with my Filipino heritage and then also just trying to figure out what it means for me

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to be an American.

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So like, that's also just a whole nother loaded thing.

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And then on top of all of that, kind of going into music school and then, yeah, not kind

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of being blind to all of the preferences that are made towards certain composers, I guess

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you can say.

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And so, yeah, when I kind of when I was going through school, yeah, we got we studied Hildegard

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of Bingen, which is like, you know, they're like token, like, hey, we have a woman in

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our book.

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And it's just like, okay, we have Clara Schumann and, you know, that's our diversity.

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And so I think.

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And if it's really progressive, Amy Beach.

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Yeah.

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And so I think I think it's getting better now.

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I know, like, there's a lot of different programs and things popping up and new developments.

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I just I and I kind of hear from my students like, oh, I'm studying, you know, popular

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music and I'm like, oh, that's really cool.

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Like, I don't know what that entails.

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But you know, but that's like really cool that that's something you can now study.

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I always think of to like when the academia kind of absorbed jazz into it, too, is like

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kind of one of the stages.

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I'm like, are we absorbing pop music now and kind of how is that going to look in a few

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years?

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But yeah, I think when it comes to my experience of learning music, I never I did learn the

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Western canon and I am grateful for knowing that music because a lot of that has inspired

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me and has influences me.

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But the other kind of flip side of it is because I come from a diverse background, I do have

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other kind of areas of music that kind of I don't realize that other people don't have

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kind of knowledge of.

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One good example is I took a music history pedagogy class.

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And so one of the courses that I kind of developed in that class was music of Southeast Asia.

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And so kind of I got to kind of do a little bit of a section on Filipino music and original

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Filipino music and just kind of showing what kind of music the Philippines has to offer

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to my class.

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And everyone was just like, I had no idea this music existed.

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I had no idea any of these artists exist.

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I had no idea like, you know, that style of music exists.

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And so it kind of that was my first instance of like, oh, yeah, I listened to I listened

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to music that not a lot of people have ever experienced in their life.

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And so I was like, how do I as a composer, how do I highlight that more in my own music

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or how do you know, what can I do to help highlight my own Filipino heritage and then

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help that be a stepping stone for other people to find, you know, more music in that genre?

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Sure, sure.

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And thank you for taking that on.

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I know.

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So as you said, sometimes this can be a difficult thing to completely express.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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I mean, you make a good point.

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Yeah.

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I'm sorry.

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I blinked out right there.

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Go on.

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No, you're fine.

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Because the you know, it's it's strange in that when you are someone who I kind of has

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a lot of like a diverse background like me where, you know, I have Filipino heritage,

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I have Spanish heritage and I live in a you know, I grew up in I was born in the United

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States.

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Like, how do I kind of I have to take this I have to like kind of tow this line of like,

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I don't want to misrepresent where I come from, because I technically you know, I didn't

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grow up in the Philippines or I didn't grow up in Spain, but I do have like that kind

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of upbringing in that culture in my like from my upbringing, but I'm not fully like sometimes

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it's hard to kind of for me to accept that I'm fully Filipino or I'm fully Spanish or

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you know, sometimes I'm fully American and some people don't believe that I'm fully American,

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but you know, so yes, it's it's it's definitely like in I love that in music, I found a feeling

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of community and I found kind of a place where I can express it in my music and I don't have

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to worry about what I'm saying I can just write the music, have people play it and kind

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of they can take it from there.

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That's the hope.

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Yeah.

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Not to dissuade no no I see what you're saying I'm just joking around.

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I mean, no I mean, and it's true I feel, I feel sometimes there's a double edged sword

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when I say that and that I found a community.

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And you know, there are there is areas of music that still need a lot of work and a

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lot of people you know, and that's also just not even in music, but in every kind of facet

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of the world of just like, how do we, you know, how do we come together and how do we

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kind of do that.

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And so I think one thing for me that has really helped is just finding that that community

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that pocket in music that's doesn't make me feel like I'm on the outside, you know, you

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know, that's a great segue into the other subject of today other than yourself, Uncharted.

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Speaking of bringing people together, I think this is a good segue into let's talk about

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Uncharted, the piece that we have featured today alongside yourself.

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So I'm gonna I'm gonna let you explain it yourself because you can certainly do it better

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than I can but on your website for the program notes for this piece Uncharted, which is for

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a read quintet, you talk about what your rationale or at least what the zeitgeist you were thinking

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of when going into writing this piece was and it also then, you know, goes into the

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structure of the piece and the tone and the different timbers that are achieved.

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So can can you talk a bit about the origins and the idea behind Uncharted?

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Yeah, so Uncharted is written for ReQuintet. I was approached by Arkane ReQuintet to write

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this piece for the show was two years ago. So the International Clarinet Association,

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they have a conference called Clarinet Fest and that year's theme was our global community

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past present future. And so when they approached me, they wanted to focus more on that future

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part of the theme. And so that's pretty much all the information they gave me. I mean,

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my normal thing I ask people who commission me is, you know, kind of what pieces do you

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like? What composers do you like? What what do you like playing? Are there any ranges

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and things like that? But other than that, you know, it's kind of as far as theme, it

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was like future. So so I sat with that for a good bit. I said, okay, what about what

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what am I what piece am I going to write about the future? Like, is it going to be about

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like technology and AI? Or like, is it going to be other things? And I started thinking

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about the other aspects of the of the theme of so our global community. So I was thinking

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about stuff that affects the globe. And so it's a that coupled with the future, I definitely

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started to feel a lot of emotions of just thinking about the future. And so I kind of

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jotted down a few emotions I was feeling, as I just thought about the future and kind

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of what the future holds for the world. And yeah, so that I use those the five, the five

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emotions I wrote down were panic, longing, frustration, wariness, and then optimism.

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So I kind of went through each movement, just trying to sit with how I feel about those

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emotions and like what I was experiencing and what was I what was I thinking about.

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And I was like, Okay, now let's capture that in music. And let's let me try to take the

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listener on that journey of emotions that I felt thinking about the future, and hopefully

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kind of bring up some issues in their own mind and how they feel about the future and

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what we can kind of do to like come together as a global community. Yeah, that was kind

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of the how the piece came about.

294
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Sure. Thank you. Thank you. And, you know, it's interesting because it's like an adaptable

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premise to the listener, like you just said, conjuring, what do those emotions in someone's

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life mean to them about their future? You know, those things. But if you're comfortable

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to do so, how about yourself? What issues are you thinking about? You know, when you

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talk about global anxiety, the first thing that I think of, and this is probably a generational

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thing I'm sure you can relate to this is climate anxiety is one of the first things that comes

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up with climate change and the millions of issues that are arisen with that. But, you

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know, I like the piece significantly for its adaptable premise. But how about yourself

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personally, what comes to mind for you?

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Yeah. And that was kind of one of the more salient things I was going to bring up is,

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you know, living here in Arizona, we definitely feel climate change. I think we broke the

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record for the most days above 100, like consecutive straight. So, you know, we definitely live

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in like a warm, I mean, it is the desert, but like that's kind of, you know, breaking

307
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records every year is definitely, you know, you do see it happen. And then obviously I

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was originally from California. And so it's just seeing like the how progressively worse

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the fire, like, you know, the wildfires have gotten.

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I can't believe there's a fire season in California. That's just crazy.

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Yeah, it's crazy and sad. And so that was one of the things I did think about. But yeah,

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when speaking to like the idea of adaptability, I did, I didn't want to just kind of, you

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know, write a movement that's called climate change or write a movement that's called like

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war or something, you know, I wanted, I wanted it to be something that can bring attention

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to what any person is having that anxiety about or having those emotions about. So another

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thing that a little bit less kind of doom and gloom, but still can feel a bit doom and

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gloom for musicians is, you know, kind of finding a career in music is also can be very,

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you know, your future in music. So it doesn't even have to be like something, you know,

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as you know, big as climate change, it can be something very personal, personal to yourself

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as far as like, you know, going through musical and like what's going to happen after musical.

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And I think that that also probably helped, helped tie in a little bit more into the piece

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for myself. Because now that I retrospectively thinking about when I was writing the piece,

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you know, I had just finished my doctorate, I was kind of trying to figure out what I'm

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going to what I wanted to do next. Obviously, the dream is to to teach at a university.

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And I had a little bit of a taste of it when I got to be on faculty at ASU over the pandemic.

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And that was like a really good experience. And then kind of after everything settled,

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I left ASU, I kind of was just thinking about, you know, what is my career? What is it? What

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is like what's in store for me? And, you know, I kept seeing like things of there's this

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one composer on social media that posts like weekly updates of like composer, professor

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positions, composition positions. And it's just like, you know, in the entire United

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States, there's two positions open. And there's like, you know, 100 applications there, probably

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thousands of applications, honestly. And so like, you know, me as a musician, and someone

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who loves teaching, it's like, okay, is, you know, teaching at university, is that even

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going to be an option for me in the future, especially with like all the programs closing,

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I had a good friend that their program just completely dissolved. And they, you know,

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now they're out of a teaching job. And so I was like, okay, what do I do with, like,

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what do I do with my own career? And so I just kind of focused on to kind of avoid the

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panic, I kind of focused on on kind of things that that brought me joy. And so yeah, that's

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where I think I went headstrong into building a studio. And then, yeah, that's where I ended

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up with like, I was kind of drowning in 40 students. And then at the same time was, you

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know, writing pieces for people and was realizing, hey, like, I do have a, you know, I'm very

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fortunate in that I have a composition schedule that I kind of have to like, keep. Like, even

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my wife will tell me like, okay, that's your last composite, like, that's your last commission

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you can take for this year, like, no more, because you will die, you know, you're going

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to burn yourself out. And so, you know, having that kind of aspect and just, you know, being

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multifaceted in music and just learning to accept that. And that's kind of my, my kind

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of journey with Uncharted, right, is, is, or at least I should say one aspect, because

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it can constantly change, you know, I think of, you know, some musicians, the future can

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hold different things for them, whether it be like, you know, injuries, or it could be

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health and family stuff, you know, it's just anything. And it can, doesn't have to be for

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musicians, it can be a piece that anyone can relate to. And I think that's like, why, for

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me, that piece has been really kind of cathartic and therapeutic, because I get to experience

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talking to audience members who will come up to me and just say, oh, you know, I thought

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about X, Y, and Z, and it's, it's different for everyone. So I'm glad that you kind of

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caught on to that adaptability.

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00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:33,100
Yeah, on the, to speak on my own adaptability with that, or what, what, how I perceived

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it was very similar to what you were just talking about. You know, I, I'm in the second

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year of my graduate school, and that's certainly career anxiety is certainly something that

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I think about. And, okay, I'll, I'll say it. Yeah, I also think I was weighing my options

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right there. I also have anxiety about my own field. Maybe this is a selfish thing to

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talk about. I'm not talking about music or music academia. I'm talking specifically about

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music theory. To put it lightly, it's not what I thought it was in, like, what I thought

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it was before I went to graduate school for it is very different than what I think it

364
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is now. And a lot of those facets are not necessarily positive or forward thinking.

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I'm being vague because I respect my professors, peers, and institution. So, but you know,

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I have a, I have a fair amount of anxiety for that and hoping to find the optimism just

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as you do in movement five. And so I want to talk about those emotions along the way

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as we go through the different movements, you know, to attach them because then we can

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like pair the sound clips of the piece with them. It'll be really cool. So, you know,

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let's talk about movement one. Panic. I think it's relatively clear, not just Arley, but

371
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looking through the score, how you illustrate the idea of panic.

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In, in one sense, something that might not be immediately noticeable in some spots it

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is because of how close the notes are, but is the harmonic panic or your incredibly tight

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vertical spacing with the different voices. Many times that results in stark minor seconds,

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major seconds, repeated lines of eighth notes of that. And then you, you throw them up an

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octave or down an octave, a lot of conflicting linear lines that vertically don't necessarily

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fit together. And I put fit in big quotes harmonically. So that it's very, at least

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in my analysis brain, it's very linear thinking, not vertical thinking in that terms, because

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it's also driving. And the other, now acute listeners will be able to notice this, but

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especially when you're looking at the score, the rhythm is absolutely just a bonkers at

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some point. Let me pull up here. I want to read that. So at 10 measures in, we have 14

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over eight, and you have notated two plus two plus three plus three plus two plus two.

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And later it changes. And then you start notating in the score that you want certain instruments

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to do a different beat or a different, yeah, a different grouping of the beats than the

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other. You know, like one will be three at one point and the other two will be two. So

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then it's just on top of the craziness of that, then you're further splitting it. So

387
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I am not a very good rhythmic person. That's in both analysis and performance. I'm also

388
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a violinist, so that adds to the stereotype of the rhythm. But that's just crazy to me.

389
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And so I'm going to, I'm asking you generally, what were you thinking about with it? Other

390
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than illustrating panic compositionally, what were you thinking about this movement? And

391
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also, because I'm just not great with rhythm, at least not to that degree, how did you conceptualize

392
00:31:05,140 --> 00:31:06,140
that part?

393
00:31:06,140 --> 00:31:11,460
You know, all really great points. And I, it's, I, and I, we had talked about this earlier

394
00:31:11,460 --> 00:31:16,380
of just like, it's so, I love that you as a music theorist are looking at my music and

395
00:31:16,380 --> 00:31:20,500
these are the things you're pulling out. Cause you know, I, for so long, I kind of stayed

396
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in that compositional brain kind of writing this piece. And so looking back now retrospectively

397
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and seeing like, okay, music, like theoretically, what is this? They're kind of, what was some,

398
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what would someone see in this music? And I'm glad that you see panic because I mean,

399
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even in the opening, you know, it's, I kind of, it might seem like random entrances, but

400
00:31:42,780 --> 00:31:48,540
for the quintet, they're counting like crazy to make sure that they come in together on

401
00:31:48,540 --> 00:31:52,780
those first initial hits. And then, yeah, you get into this weird time signature. And

402
00:31:52,780 --> 00:31:58,060
so kind of a little bit of a backstory to, to where this time signature comes from. I

403
00:31:58,060 --> 00:32:04,060
was listening to actually the group Rage Against the Machines. And I was just kind of like,

404
00:32:04,060 --> 00:32:07,740
I love how sometimes it's not even like, you know, their account, it's more just like a

405
00:32:07,740 --> 00:32:12,420
groove that they're, they're kind of setting down. And then it doesn't really matter, like

406
00:32:12,420 --> 00:32:17,660
the time signature or like what it looked, what kind of theoretically what it looks like.

407
00:32:17,660 --> 00:32:21,460
It's more just how you feel it. And that's kind of where that crazy time signature would

408
00:32:21,460 --> 00:32:25,060
come from is I was kind of sitting at a piano and I was like, okay, let's think about what's

409
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something that sounds kind of crazy. And so I, I started messing around and I was like,

410
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okay, what is this groove in? How does it feel? And then I tried to like, you know,

411
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put it in four, four, put it in, you know, five, eight and five, eight plus five, eight

412
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and seven, eight or, you know, seven, eight plus seven, eight. And then it kind of, it

413
00:32:42,220 --> 00:32:48,220
made sense, the most sense to just do in the, you know, 14, eight. And then yeah, add the

414
00:32:48,220 --> 00:32:53,420
groupings in and talking to the quintet too, I wanted to make sure that it made sense to

415
00:32:53,420 --> 00:32:57,140
them also because, you know, they're the ones performing it and playing it. So they need

416
00:32:57,140 --> 00:33:02,820
to figure out these rhythms. And surprisingly, you know, they said, actually, you know, it

417
00:33:02,820 --> 00:33:06,700
doesn't, they are not fazed by that. It, they just feel that rhythm, you know, they feel

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that how it goes. And then they're able to kind of follow each other. And then when it

419
00:33:11,020 --> 00:33:15,620
does get into different groupings, that's where it was a little tricky, but I tried

420
00:33:15,620 --> 00:33:19,540
to, you know, group the interests. So you're not alone in those groupings. You know, you

421
00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:24,140
have someone else kind of join you in those groupings. And then you just have to, you

422
00:33:24,140 --> 00:33:28,780
know, you trust in your own kind of feel of that groove. But yeah, so that's kind of where

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all those crazy time signature comes from. And yeah, the definitely I thought about it

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first horizontally, like what is the line? And then kind of, you know, as I went thinking

425
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about vertically, is that the harmony that I want? Or like, is that kind of the sound

426
00:33:45,620 --> 00:33:51,540
I want there? Or is that, you know, is that dissonance quote unquote, correct in my mind?

427
00:33:51,540 --> 00:33:53,500
Desired. Is it desired?

428
00:33:53,500 --> 00:34:00,540
Yes. Yeah. And so, yeah. And the biggest thing is just when I'm writing this or when I'm,

429
00:34:00,540 --> 00:34:04,900
when I hear this, and then eventually, like when someone plays it, do you like, can you

430
00:34:04,900 --> 00:34:09,460
feel the panic in the music? And yeah, I think I hopefully I captured that. And it seems

431
00:34:09,460 --> 00:34:10,460
like I did.

432
00:34:10,460 --> 00:34:18,380
Yes, you did. You did. And okay, this is coming from a string player. But personally, in my

433
00:34:18,380 --> 00:34:24,380
opinion, a reed quintet has a much brighter and harsher sound than if you did this for

434
00:34:24,380 --> 00:34:31,220
a string quartet. So I feel like that you can have that in your face emotion, maybe

435
00:34:31,220 --> 00:34:35,260
a little bit easier with the timbre of the instruments than if you did it for a piano

436
00:34:35,260 --> 00:34:41,460
trio string quartet, quintet, whatever. Again, you may decide I'm sure you're very partial

437
00:34:41,460 --> 00:34:42,820
to woodwinds, of course. But

438
00:34:42,820 --> 00:34:51,300
Yeah, I mean, yeah, the writing for the reed quintet was like super fun. And all the musicians

439
00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:56,260
are an arcane reed quintet. They're like, you know, amazing players and kind of just

440
00:34:56,260 --> 00:35:00,740
took what I said and took what I wrote and kind of took it to the next level, which is

441
00:35:00,740 --> 00:35:05,660
just, you know, that's all you can ask for. And but I think, you know, writing for strings

442
00:35:05,660 --> 00:35:13,500
is it has it comes with it kind of comes with its own kind of baggage. Sure. Like, I've

443
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:18,140
yet to write a string quartet, mainly because, you know, there's, again, a lot of baggage

444
00:35:18,140 --> 00:35:23,420
that comes with writing string quartet. And there's plenty of good ones out there. But

445
00:35:23,420 --> 00:35:28,100
and plenty of other great ones that are being written now. So, but yeah, I think when it

446
00:35:28,100 --> 00:35:33,580
came to writing for the reed quintet, I had a little bit of I kind of had a little cheat

447
00:35:33,580 --> 00:35:38,820
code one, I you know, I play two of the instruments clarinet and bass clarinet. And then the other

448
00:35:38,820 --> 00:35:43,140
instruments are, you know, one, I have really good friends who plays instruments, and then

449
00:35:43,140 --> 00:35:47,260
I've just spent a lot of time playing in like, you know, orchestra and band and stuff. And

450
00:35:47,260 --> 00:35:51,500
so having a little bit more intimate knowledge of those instruments and how they work together.

451
00:35:51,500 --> 00:35:56,860
Sure, sure. Totally understandable. I personally would find a string quartet a lot more approachable.

452
00:35:56,860 --> 00:36:01,900
But surprise, it's because I've played in them. So it you know, like, come see come

453
00:36:01,900 --> 00:36:07,500
saw when it comes to that. On the idea of panic, tying into the theme of everything,

454
00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:13,180
I don't think it's very hard to see. And again, like, orally, but like, intellectually, when

455
00:36:13,180 --> 00:36:18,720
we're talking about big things in the world or our own personal world, it's not too hard

456
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:24,020
to describe what panic means in the context of this. So I think we're going to move past

457
00:36:24,020 --> 00:36:31,540
that philosophical discussion with that because it's well, it's a very intense, hopefully

458
00:36:31,540 --> 00:36:38,820
momentary, sometimes prolonged feeling of being overwhelmed and stressed and worried.

459
00:36:38,820 --> 00:36:42,780
I don't think that's too hard for people to imagine. But I do want to especially talk

460
00:36:42,780 --> 00:36:59,220
about movement too with longing.

461
00:37:42,780 --> 00:38:01,780
So movement to you know, like with any, I'm not going to say ones that aren't contrasting

462
00:38:01,780 --> 00:38:08,300
are bad, but like with any good multi movement chamber work, you have strong contrasts between

463
00:38:08,300 --> 00:38:16,340
the movements, especially adjacent movements like movement to longing. I would not to disagree

464
00:38:16,340 --> 00:38:21,100
with like your own compositional thing, but it serves almost more as an interlude because

465
00:38:21,100 --> 00:38:28,100
it is so short compared to the other movements. And it is completely different than its adjacent

466
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:34,220
movements. And another thing that I found fascinating, what I really loved is the we're talking about

467
00:38:34,220 --> 00:38:43,140
harmonic structures and linear vertical writing. This one is highly vertical, I would say,

468
00:38:43,140 --> 00:38:47,860
with the exception of melodic fragments where a specific instrument will break off, it's

469
00:38:47,860 --> 00:38:53,500
almost entirely vertically written in that I was thinking about, I was taking a look

470
00:38:53,500 --> 00:39:00,740
at this while I was in my office yesterday, or at the graduate assistant office. And I

471
00:39:00,740 --> 00:39:06,580
was because I just got done preparing for the transformational theory class, I was thinking

472
00:39:06,580 --> 00:39:11,420
about like, Oh, that Roman numeral go there. Oh, that Roman it actually what neo-Romanian

473
00:39:11,420 --> 00:39:16,580
transformation like it was, it's highly, it's highly tonal, even if not everything adheres

474
00:39:16,580 --> 00:39:21,320
specifically, you know, I'm trying to think about how did you achieve the feeling of longing?

475
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:26,660
And what does that mean in the context of all this? Because I think about how it's like

476
00:39:26,660 --> 00:39:35,500
the calm after the storm. And its harmony is simple. And, and like, logical enough that

477
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:41,980
it's, yeah, it's just, it's just calming compared to what the listener just went through. So

478
00:39:41,980 --> 00:39:46,380
I guess that wasn't a fully formed thought. But can you go ahead and talk about the second

479
00:39:46,380 --> 00:39:47,380
movement?

480
00:39:47,380 --> 00:39:52,220
Yeah, definitely. I love it. And yes, it's just a good kind of description of it is that

481
00:39:52,220 --> 00:39:58,820
is it's kind of an interlude into the kind of and for the listeners, the structure of

482
00:39:58,820 --> 00:40:04,980
like the whole thing is it's primarily a taka. I mean, I put like fermatas after each movement,

483
00:40:04,980 --> 00:40:08,780
and I kind of specify, you know, whether it's a long fermata or short fermata, I wanted

484
00:40:08,780 --> 00:40:15,900
the piece of the movement some more flow seamlessly together. So if we talk about theory analysis,

485
00:40:15,900 --> 00:40:25,080
in the at the last moment of the first movement, I believe there's like a D in the bassoon,

486
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:32,160
and then it resolves to like a G in the second movement. There's a good five one moment.

487
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:38,500
And so the and kind of how I sent it to you, unfortunately, I had to send to you and kind

488
00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:43,980
of broken up movements. So you don't get that kind of nice seamless transition from like

489
00:40:43,980 --> 00:40:48,940
the first movement to the second movement. Oh, I see it. Yes, I see it. Yes. Yeah. I

490
00:40:48,940 --> 00:40:54,620
kind of was thinking about, okay, how do I get out of this like, crazy panic? And usually

491
00:40:54,620 --> 00:41:02,820
what happens for me at least is like, I will have that kind of moment of calm. And so I

492
00:41:02,820 --> 00:41:09,380
was trying to think of like longing and and having like, how do I capture that in music?

493
00:41:09,380 --> 00:41:14,100
And what's nice too, is that even the they read Gwintet when they got the movement, they

494
00:41:14,100 --> 00:41:19,540
were like, we don't know, like the direction to take this movement, like, where how do

495
00:41:19,540 --> 00:41:23,700
we like, what do you want us to do? Where is the line flowing? And I was like, that's

496
00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:30,620
the point is that these kind of big, you know, these just chords that kind of start the movement,

497
00:41:30,620 --> 00:41:37,500
they're that it's something that's trying to start and just can't kind of go forward.

498
00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:43,100
And then you get when the instruments kind of move, move, when certain solo instruments

499
00:41:43,100 --> 00:41:48,380
kind of pull away from that vertical kind of chord movement. That's, you know, kind

500
00:41:48,380 --> 00:41:53,060
of them yearning and like, kind of almost trying to pull the rest of the ensemble into

501
00:41:53,060 --> 00:41:58,580
something more horizontal again, like more like as direction can kind of move forward.

502
00:41:58,580 --> 00:42:03,180
And so that's kind of one one idea I had, and that kind of what I tried to do with the

503
00:42:03,180 --> 00:42:09,540
texture there is that idea of like, you have these kind of soloists trying to pull the

504
00:42:09,540 --> 00:42:16,900
the the ensemble along and kind of yearning for that, that next thing that next kind of

505
00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:22,340
melody or that next harmony or, you know, moving to the next idea. And then the other

506
00:42:22,340 --> 00:42:27,900
kind of tie into that is, yeah, it's this idea of like, sometimes you kind of it's

507
00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:31,460
that idea of like, kind of staring off into the distance and kind of like, if you're on

508
00:42:31,460 --> 00:42:37,300
like a on a ship in the in the middle of the ocean, and you saw like an island in the distance,

509
00:42:37,300 --> 00:42:40,780
like all you could do is, you know, kind of keep paddling your boat and looking at the

510
00:42:40,780 --> 00:42:44,980
island like, you know, and just kind of like, trying to get there and trying to

511
00:42:44,980 --> 00:42:50,580
I assume that's how it fits into the narrative of dealing with certain issues in your life

512
00:42:50,580 --> 00:42:51,580
in the future.

513
00:42:51,580 --> 00:42:56,340
Yeah, you know, you can't you can't predict the future, right? You can't like, know what's

514
00:42:56,340 --> 00:42:59,540
going to happen. You can only kind of like think of things that are going to happen.

515
00:42:59,540 --> 00:43:03,780
And at the same time, yeah, you're also kind of trying to like, pull all these aspects

516
00:43:03,780 --> 00:43:09,100
of your life forward and trying to pull out of this kind of panic. And it's like, okay,

517
00:43:09,100 --> 00:43:14,080
so we like we are alive, and we still have to, you know, live our life. So how do we

518
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:20,300
kind of keep going forward and pull away from some of the craziness that's around us? And

519
00:43:20,300 --> 00:43:25,620
yeah, the yeah, just kind of seeing sometimes just seeing your dream in the distance and

520
00:43:25,620 --> 00:43:30,620
seeing that like career you want or seeing that future you want or that kind of ideal

521
00:43:30,620 --> 00:43:34,540
thing and trying, you know, seeing it in the in the distance and not being able to kind

522
00:43:34,540 --> 00:43:37,220
of quite grasp it quite yet.

523
00:43:37,220 --> 00:43:44,220
Sure, sure. You know, that that brings us to movement three, which, if I'm not mistaken,

524
00:43:44,220 --> 00:43:45,220
is anger.

525
00:43:45,220 --> 00:43:50,660
So this one's frustration and frustration. Yeah, I did kind of actually I did I kind

526
00:43:50,660 --> 00:43:55,180
of tested a different different word than different emotions that kind of into you know,

527
00:43:55,180 --> 00:44:01,540
thesaurus.com. Like, trying to figure out what did kind of fit in in in kind of when

528
00:44:01,540 --> 00:44:04,620
when I finished writing the music. So I did, I think initially, it might have been like

529
00:44:04,620 --> 00:44:08,820
anger or rage or something like that. And then I was like, actually, it's more it's

530
00:44:08,820 --> 00:44:10,180
just frustrating. You know,

531
00:44:10,180 --> 00:44:29,180
yeah, they certainly are different flavors of ice cream, those different words. So frustration.

532
00:44:29,180 --> 00:44:48,940
Right.

533
00:45:18,940 --> 00:45:23,420
compositionally expressing it, of course, it's a faster tempo

534
00:45:23,460 --> 00:45:29,680
or no equals 120. It's in, you know, it's just the thing that I

535
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:35,420
noticed how you were emphasizing frustration is very much in

536
00:45:35,420 --> 00:45:38,620
rhythm, but it's in a different way than the first movement. In

537
00:45:38,620 --> 00:45:41,340
that for a lot of this, there are at least the beginning, it's

538
00:45:41,340 --> 00:45:45,500
in 4-4, which is a really typical meter, especially for

539
00:45:45,500 --> 00:45:50,060
120 beats per minute, that's like kind of almost pop music

540
00:45:50,100 --> 00:45:55,940
tempo. But you also, for the most part, had pretty

541
00:45:55,940 --> 00:46:00,820
traditional beat emphasis, but it was really strong and harsh,

542
00:46:01,220 --> 00:46:05,900
which I just I love that way of illustrating frustration,

543
00:46:05,940 --> 00:46:09,620
especially in contrast to the beginning, because like the

544
00:46:09,620 --> 00:46:14,100
beginning was like craziness, kind of, no, it was with the

545
00:46:14,100 --> 00:46:18,100
rhythm, at least, and with the harmony. Now, I didn't really do

546
00:46:18,100 --> 00:46:22,780
so much of a harmonic analysis with the frustration, but it was

547
00:46:22,780 --> 00:46:27,260
very, for a good chunk of movement three, it's very square

548
00:46:27,620 --> 00:46:33,060
in terms of its rhythm, but then it starts to unravel as a lot of

549
00:46:33,060 --> 00:46:37,340
frustration does. And then there's a breaking point where it

550
00:46:37,340 --> 00:47:00,020
goes even faster. And then the texture gets crazy. So like it

551
00:47:00,020 --> 00:47:03,660
went from a very, and don't take this as an insult, but very

552
00:47:03,660 --> 00:47:08,940
standard 4-4 aggressive movement. And then it started

553
00:47:08,980 --> 00:47:12,100
losing the, it got lost in the sauce a little bit, just as we

554
00:47:12,100 --> 00:47:16,900
all, just as we all do in frustration. So I'm sure that I

555
00:47:16,900 --> 00:47:20,260
want, I'm guessing that's where you were going compositionally

556
00:47:20,260 --> 00:47:23,060
and philosophically with this movement. But can you talk about

557
00:47:23,060 --> 00:47:23,540
it a bit?

558
00:47:24,060 --> 00:47:30,060
Yes. I, yeah, definitely. Like, when I was thinking about

559
00:47:30,060 --> 00:47:34,340
frustration, like, yeah, you have that kind of driving 4-4,

560
00:47:34,340 --> 00:47:37,380
that's just like, we're in the strict time, like you, there's

561
00:47:37,380 --> 00:47:40,900
the box and you can stay only in the box, right? And the

562
00:47:40,900 --> 00:47:44,060
frustration is trying to get out of that box. And so, you know,

563
00:47:44,060 --> 00:47:46,140
it starts off with those like kind of running sixteenths, and

564
00:47:46,140 --> 00:47:48,780
then it just like stops abruptly. And then kind of you get like

565
00:47:48,780 --> 00:47:52,060
introduction, and then it does it, it tries to ramp up again.

566
00:47:52,100 --> 00:47:56,540
And then it's kind of, you know, everyone, every kind of inch,

567
00:47:56,540 --> 00:48:02,020
every person in the quintet is, I kind of thought of it as if

568
00:48:02,020 --> 00:48:06,380
they were trying to vie for like their kind of voice to be heard

569
00:48:06,420 --> 00:48:09,420
above everyone else. Because that's another issue that like

570
00:48:09,420 --> 00:48:11,660
kind of you think of in the future, or like when you think

571
00:48:11,660 --> 00:48:16,540
of the future, sometimes with good, even though people have

572
00:48:16,540 --> 00:48:20,340
good intentions, sometimes when we all try to like have our

573
00:48:20,340 --> 00:48:23,540
voice heard, then no one's heard, you know, so it's like, if,

574
00:48:23,540 --> 00:48:26,780
if everyone's screaming, no one's listening kind of idea.

575
00:48:26,860 --> 00:48:29,900
And so I definitely was feeling that kind of while I was writing

576
00:48:29,900 --> 00:48:33,580
it, I was like, I can't for maybe I've like blacked it out,

577
00:48:33,580 --> 00:48:36,940
but I can't pinpoint the exact kind of like instance in history

578
00:48:36,940 --> 00:48:39,460
that like, I was thinking of that happening. But there's

579
00:48:39,460 --> 00:48:42,620
plenty of, you know, kind of anyone can slot in any, anything

580
00:48:42,620 --> 00:48:46,820
that's kind of happening right now, even right now, with kind

581
00:48:46,820 --> 00:48:49,860
of like, November coming up or whatever. So the yes, I

582
00:48:49,860 --> 00:48:53,140
definitely was like, okay, let's start a bit like, kind of that

583
00:48:53,140 --> 00:48:56,540
idea of here's the box. Now it's, can we like break out of

584
00:48:56,540 --> 00:49:00,740
it? And when we do break out of it, what happens if we all break

585
00:49:00,740 --> 00:49:02,900
out of it all at the same time? And like, kind of if we're all

586
00:49:02,900 --> 00:49:05,460
just like, yelling at each other, and you know, just like

587
00:49:05,460 --> 00:49:07,980
trying to get our voices heard. And then you get that at the

588
00:49:07,980 --> 00:49:11,500
very end, I do have to give credit to arcane though, that,

589
00:49:11,820 --> 00:49:16,060
that part where it tell around us and gets faster was actually

590
00:49:16,100 --> 00:49:20,260
their suggestion. They were like, they're like, we get to

591
00:49:20,260 --> 00:49:22,660
this part, and it feels like we are frustrated, but like, how

592
00:49:22,660 --> 00:49:27,340
do we go more like how to go past it? And so like, listen to

593
00:49:27,340 --> 00:49:30,100
it, like listen to this version. And then they played it for me.

594
00:49:30,100 --> 00:49:34,100
And yeah, they added no child rondo. And then on top of it,

595
00:49:34,580 --> 00:49:39,300
there's kind of really loud and kind of anger, angry

596
00:49:39,300 --> 00:49:43,140
multifonics that get kind of, kind of played and interjected

597
00:49:43,140 --> 00:49:46,060
through this like groove that I set up. And that was also their

598
00:49:46,060 --> 00:49:47,860
idea. They were like, you know, what do you think of these

599
00:49:47,860 --> 00:49:50,620
multi-fond? I had just written like trills, but I think in my

600
00:49:50,620 --> 00:49:54,580
mind, I was thinking like, do something angry. And so they

601
00:49:54,580 --> 00:49:56,700
did, they're like, okay, here's some like angry multi-fond

602
00:49:56,700 --> 00:50:01,260
that we can make. And, and that kind of collaboration is what I

603
00:50:01,260 --> 00:50:04,980
love about working, kind of, you know, creating music in real

604
00:50:04,980 --> 00:50:09,340
time is that you can have the musicians sometimes they're like,

605
00:50:10,020 --> 00:50:12,940
this is so this would be fun to play and sound cool. Let's try

606
00:50:12,940 --> 00:50:15,900
it. And then usually, I ended up I ended up putting it in the,

607
00:50:15,900 --> 00:50:20,540
you know, in the piece. And so, yeah, as it kind of, kind of

608
00:50:20,580 --> 00:50:24,460
keeps going as the movement moves on towards the end, have

609
00:50:24,460 --> 00:50:26,980
all these lines that get introduced in the movement. And

610
00:50:26,980 --> 00:50:30,980
then by the end, each each kind of instrument takes one of those

611
00:50:30,980 --> 00:50:34,860
lines and is trying to like make that the most important. And

612
00:50:34,980 --> 00:50:38,540
when they were playing it, it was funny too, they were, they

613
00:50:38,540 --> 00:50:41,180
definitely were really good musicians were trying to find

614
00:50:41,180 --> 00:50:43,940
the like, this person has the melody and we'll make sure that

615
00:50:43,940 --> 00:50:46,900
they're like, you know, prominent in this, the prominent

616
00:50:46,900 --> 00:50:50,820
voice in this texture. And I was like, no, everyone's important.

617
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:53,540
Everyone trying to be louder. Everyone trying to be louder than

618
00:50:53,540 --> 00:50:55,780
everyone else. And then, you know, by the time you get to

619
00:50:55,780 --> 00:50:58,580
that, that little, you know, the very last thing, it's just like,

620
00:50:58,620 --> 00:51:00,780
you know, everyone's just screaming at each other. And

621
00:51:00,780 --> 00:51:03,780
like, then it, you know, just ends abruptly, because how else

622
00:51:03,780 --> 00:51:04,820
do you end an argument, you know?

623
00:51:05,060 --> 00:51:08,140
Yeah, well, argument of that nature, at least. Yeah,

624
00:51:08,460 --> 00:51:13,780
certainly. And so then I find it, I'm not 100% sure what the

625
00:51:13,780 --> 00:51:17,620
thing of movement for. And what I mean by that is how it

626
00:51:17,620 --> 00:51:21,220
emotionally fits, because I find the word that you use very

627
00:51:21,220 --> 00:51:44,060
interesting, wariness.

628
00:51:51,220 --> 00:52:10,180
Wariness for movement four. Now movement four is also pretty

629
00:52:10,180 --> 00:52:17,140
up tempo, as movement three is, but it's a lot cleaner in the

630
00:52:17,140 --> 00:52:22,100
orchestration of it. And I can probably guess that you wanted to

631
00:52:22,100 --> 00:52:25,740
move away from the multiple voices climbing over each other

632
00:52:25,780 --> 00:52:29,660
sort of idea into something that is a little bit more finely and

633
00:52:29,660 --> 00:52:35,700
thinly in some parts structured. And so it, when I say it's a

634
00:52:35,700 --> 00:52:39,020
simple movement, what I mean by that is that there's no like,

635
00:52:39,140 --> 00:52:44,420
ball busting moment. It's a very, it's a very clean movement

636
00:52:44,420 --> 00:52:47,780
after something that was incredibly messy, right before.

637
00:52:47,980 --> 00:52:52,580
And so can you talk a bit about movement four, but specifically,

638
00:52:53,180 --> 00:52:56,940
you know, describe wariness and how that fits into this. I find

639
00:52:56,940 --> 00:52:59,820
that specific word very fascinating.

640
00:53:00,500 --> 00:53:05,180
Yes. So originally, I had titled that fourth movement,

641
00:53:05,940 --> 00:53:10,900
wariness. So this idea of like, you know, wariness meaning like

642
00:53:10,900 --> 00:53:13,660
you're, you've just done something exhausting, and like

643
00:53:13,660 --> 00:53:17,260
you're just exhausted. And so I was like that, you know, after

644
00:53:17,300 --> 00:53:21,740
having a screaming match, right, you would be exhausted and, and

645
00:53:21,740 --> 00:53:25,020
kind of like, you're just done and tired. And sometimes when

646
00:53:25,020 --> 00:53:26,700
you think about the future, you're like, you get to a point

647
00:53:26,700 --> 00:53:28,780
where you're like, I can't think of anything. Yeah, there's

648
00:53:28,780 --> 00:53:31,340
nothing I can do. I'm only one person. And like you just, it's

649
00:53:31,340 --> 00:53:35,260
exhausting, right? Having those, that those crazy emotions and,

650
00:53:35,460 --> 00:53:37,780
and just thinking about the future can be very exhausting.

651
00:53:38,700 --> 00:53:41,980
And anxieties can be very exhausting. And so that's where

652
00:53:41,980 --> 00:53:44,580
I initially was like, okay, I'm gonna write this movement. And

653
00:53:44,580 --> 00:53:51,700
then, as I wrote it, the meaning changed slightly in that I

654
00:53:51,700 --> 00:53:56,340
wasn't, I don't know, I guess I was like, I part of it was, I

655
00:53:56,340 --> 00:53:59,500
did still have that feeling of exhaustion in there. But it was

656
00:53:59,500 --> 00:54:03,460
more of like, wariness. So like, kind of cautiously moving

657
00:54:03,460 --> 00:54:07,340
forward is kind of where I kind of drew that word. Because I

658
00:54:07,340 --> 00:54:10,540
was thinking of, okay, we just had the screaming match. And

659
00:54:10,540 --> 00:54:13,420
like, we can't just go back, right? There's no going back.

660
00:54:13,460 --> 00:54:17,180
And so the only thing we can do is move forward. But with

661
00:54:17,180 --> 00:54:19,620
everything that just happened, we have to move forward with

662
00:54:19,620 --> 00:54:21,700
that kind of, you know, conscious, cautiously moving

663
00:54:21,700 --> 00:54:26,660
forward. And it kind of ties into a little bit later into the

664
00:54:26,660 --> 00:54:30,300
last moment of, you know, which is optimism. And so I wanted

665
00:54:30,740 --> 00:54:34,940
that idea of sometimes I have the tendency to just be blindly

666
00:54:34,940 --> 00:54:39,140
optimistic. And so kind of in thinking about the future, it's

667
00:54:39,140 --> 00:54:42,980
helped me kind of, maybe not helped me, but it's definitely

668
00:54:42,980 --> 00:54:47,180
changed my optimism to be more like a cautious optimism, right?

669
00:54:47,300 --> 00:54:51,980
And so I wanted wary. Oh, yeah, I wanted wariness to be maybe

670
00:54:51,980 --> 00:54:55,180
I'm saying it backwards, wary and wary. Anyways, you get the

671
00:54:55,180 --> 00:54:55,500
idea.

672
00:54:55,940 --> 00:55:01,020
Honestly, I'm not 100% sure the specific differences of such. So

673
00:55:01,020 --> 00:55:01,460
I'm

674
00:55:01,460 --> 00:55:01,660
going

675
00:55:01,660 --> 00:55:05,060
Yeah, but it is so long story short, it is kind of a play on

676
00:55:05,060 --> 00:55:07,300
words, the title of the movement. So wariness and

677
00:55:07,300 --> 00:55:10,460
wariness, right? They're very close in saying, and I kind of I

678
00:55:10,460 --> 00:55:15,260
try to clump them together, like, so that that movement is a

679
00:55:15,260 --> 00:55:18,420
bit more of like a connection into optimism in the sense that

680
00:55:18,900 --> 00:55:22,900
we're trying to move forward cautiously. And I think that is

681
00:55:22,980 --> 00:55:27,860
weird. And wary is when you're tired, but the audience

682
00:55:27,860 --> 00:55:31,180
shouldn't. Yeah, they'll get it. They can Google. Yes. Yes,

683
00:55:31,180 --> 00:55:39,340
they can. But the no, I guess as chat GPT. Thank you. Thank you

684
00:55:39,340 --> 00:55:45,740
for that setting of that. And so then how you express optimism at

685
00:55:45,740 --> 00:56:01,700
the end movement five.

686
00:56:45,740 --> 00:57:07,180
One thing I was, I was just the one I thought about this before

687
00:57:07,180 --> 00:57:11,140
when I was listening to it is that you have like, not that he

688
00:57:11,140 --> 00:57:13,460
owns this, but it's just something that pops into mind,

689
00:57:13,460 --> 00:57:19,100
like, john Williams ask, like, soaring melodies sort of vibe

690
00:57:19,100 --> 00:57:24,140
going on with movement five, it's if you just did a little

691
00:57:24,140 --> 00:57:26,860
character piece and called it optimism, it would probably be

692
00:57:26,860 --> 00:57:29,980
criticized for being a little too cheesy. Like it's just, you

693
00:57:29,980 --> 00:57:33,500
know, but in the context of this piece, it is certainly a

694
00:57:33,500 --> 00:57:37,380
contrast from previous movements. It's almost like

695
00:57:37,420 --> 00:57:40,900
movie ask in some of its textures for a little bit in how

696
00:57:40,900 --> 00:57:45,500
it it treats its melody. It's very naturally flowing. And so

697
00:57:45,820 --> 00:57:48,620
how about this? Yeah, take this out. You can describe this

698
00:57:48,620 --> 00:57:52,140
musically or with whatever issues you have in your mind or

699
00:57:52,140 --> 00:57:54,860
in your life. How do you reach that optimism without it

700
00:57:54,860 --> 00:57:58,820
feeling? How do you earn that optimism almost? You know, just

701
00:57:58,820 --> 00:58:02,620
like I said, musically, if you're just optimistic, without

702
00:58:02,660 --> 00:58:05,900
going through the trial and the tribulation musically throughout

703
00:58:05,900 --> 00:58:09,340
this piece, or personally and emotionally, it can sometimes

704
00:58:09,340 --> 00:58:13,260
feel cheap. You may still have an underlying, just like if you

705
00:58:13,260 --> 00:58:15,740
just did a piece called optimism, which I'm sure

706
00:58:15,740 --> 00:58:19,740
someone can do just fine. But, you know, this means a lot more

707
00:58:19,740 --> 00:58:22,820
when it comes after the trial and tribulation musically and

708
00:58:22,820 --> 00:58:25,300
emotionally. How do you find that optimism?

709
00:58:26,460 --> 00:58:30,780
Yeah, I think I don't know where it comes if it's just as like

710
00:58:30,860 --> 00:58:35,500
from my upbringing. I've really seen where my especially now

711
00:58:35,500 --> 00:58:37,860
that I'm older, you know, I think back to my childhood, I

712
00:58:37,860 --> 00:58:42,260
think of like where my parents started, and how they have been

713
00:58:42,260 --> 00:58:46,980
able to, you know, grow a life for their family and then create

714
00:58:46,980 --> 00:58:50,580
opportunities for their children. And like, I'm the

715
00:58:50,580 --> 00:58:54,580
first person in my family to ever earn a doctorate. And so,

716
00:58:55,060 --> 00:58:57,820
and I'm, you know, I wouldn't have been able to do any of

717
00:58:57,820 --> 00:59:01,380
that if it weren't for like the hard work of and the sacrifices

718
00:59:01,380 --> 00:59:06,580
of my parents, and my family and, you know, everyone who's

719
00:59:06,580 --> 00:59:11,020
kind of supported me along the way. And so I think where my

720
00:59:11,020 --> 00:59:15,660
optimism comes from is that seeing seeing how much struggle

721
00:59:16,500 --> 00:59:20,260
a person can go through, but still kind of have and build a

722
00:59:20,260 --> 00:59:23,380
life. You know, it's kind of, it's a little bit cheesy. And

723
00:59:23,380 --> 00:59:26,540
sometimes it's not a good thing anymore. But I know, you know,

724
00:59:26,540 --> 00:59:32,180
the American dream, right is like this concept that a lot of

725
00:59:32,180 --> 00:59:35,300
us grew up with. And, and I would say that I did get to

726
00:59:35,300 --> 00:59:39,140
experience my parents kind of really build that American dream

727
00:59:39,620 --> 00:59:44,100
for, you know, me and my and their family and all of my

728
00:59:44,100 --> 00:59:47,820
siblings. And so I think looking back and just kind of

729
00:59:48,020 --> 00:59:52,060
understanding that, you know, we can't do this alone. It takes,

730
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:57,300
you know, we have to kind of come together. I think, as

731
00:59:57,300 --> 01:00:00,380
I've gone through my, you know, and as I continue to go through

732
01:00:00,380 --> 01:00:03,940
my career and through music, definitely like we talked about,

733
01:00:03,940 --> 01:00:08,660
I found that community in music that is coming together and is

734
01:00:08,660 --> 01:00:11,060
trying to make change happen. And yeah, it's going to be messy

735
01:00:11,060 --> 01:00:14,740
along the way as seen in the other movements. But, you know, I

736
01:00:14,740 --> 01:00:18,180
think, if you think about the trajectory of a lot of the

737
01:00:18,180 --> 01:00:22,100
things that have happened in, in kind of my own lifetime, or if I

738
01:00:22,100 --> 01:00:24,620
think about things that have happened in my own lifetime, you

739
01:00:24,620 --> 01:00:27,980
know, it's only gotten better. Yes, there's been like, you

740
01:00:27,980 --> 01:00:32,340
know, fires along the way, and, and a lot of heartache and a

741
01:00:32,340 --> 01:00:38,780
lot of sadness and a lot of pain. But in the end, like, it's, I

742
01:00:38,780 --> 01:00:41,980
can only say that things have always gotten better. And so I

743
01:00:41,980 --> 01:00:46,340
wanted to end this piece with that, with that feeling of it

744
01:00:46,340 --> 01:00:50,260
will get better. You know, even coming out of the last moment

745
01:00:50,260 --> 01:00:54,220
where it's cautious, you still can be optimistic and can still

746
01:00:54,380 --> 01:00:56,700
because without that autism, you know, you can't, you don't

747
01:00:56,700 --> 01:01:00,140
really know if you can, like, what's the point of moving for

748
01:01:00,140 --> 01:01:02,580
what's the point of trying to fight for something, if you

749
01:01:02,580 --> 01:01:06,180
don't have that, that kind of optimism to hope for something

750
01:01:06,180 --> 01:01:08,860
better and work for something better, and, you know, kind of

751
01:01:08,900 --> 01:01:12,620
bring that all into make all the pain that happened before worth

752
01:01:12,620 --> 01:01:15,140
it in the end. So when I was writing, yeah, so when I was

753
01:01:15,140 --> 01:01:22,500
writing that that last movement, I kind of, I almost just, you

754
01:01:22,500 --> 01:01:24,860
know, I just sat at the piano and kind of improvised for a

755
01:01:24,860 --> 01:01:29,780
little bit and then came came up with the melodies and the lines

756
01:01:29,780 --> 01:01:34,140
that that that you hear and it was just me kind of letting go

757
01:01:34,540 --> 01:01:37,460
of everything that happened before, right, and just

758
01:01:37,780 --> 01:01:41,980
thinking about, you know, thinking about moving forward

759
01:01:41,980 --> 01:01:44,500
and thinking about kind of all the positive things that have

760
01:01:44,500 --> 01:01:48,020
happened in my life and, and highlighting those and and

761
01:01:48,020 --> 01:01:51,220
understanding, you know, contextually what happened around

762
01:01:51,220 --> 01:01:54,180
all that other positive things, but understanding that in the

763
01:01:54,180 --> 01:01:55,660
end, it is all positive, right?

764
01:01:55,660 --> 01:01:59,380
Sure. Thank you. Thank you for that. You know, some I like to

765
01:01:59,380 --> 01:02:04,780
get sometimes I get criticized by this some say it's sometimes

766
01:02:04,780 --> 01:02:09,300
it's rightfully so by some of my peers or maybe in some of my

767
01:02:09,300 --> 01:02:14,740
analysis that I go pretty deep into the philosophical or

768
01:02:14,740 --> 01:02:18,380
emotional level on music and sometimes not the deep technical

769
01:02:18,420 --> 01:02:22,780
which has its pluses and its minuses, but I always find that

770
01:02:22,780 --> 01:02:27,220
the most fascinating. Before we move on to the final segment of

771
01:02:27,220 --> 01:02:30,780
the podcast, is there anything else that you want to say

772
01:02:30,780 --> 01:02:37,780
specifically with Uncharted, the process, any of the movements,

773
01:02:37,780 --> 01:02:40,940
the overall message, the emotions, whatever you would

774
01:02:40,940 --> 01:02:41,180
like?

775
01:02:42,020 --> 01:02:47,300
Wow, it's a big question. Yeah, I think, in general, if you

776
01:02:47,300 --> 01:02:51,500
know, if someone's going through something, I always find it very

777
01:02:51,500 --> 01:02:54,260
therapeutic to listen to, it doesn't even have to be like,

778
01:02:54,260 --> 01:02:56,420
you know, Uncharted, it could be like any piece or any, it could

779
01:02:56,420 --> 01:02:58,820
be a pop tune or something that just really speaks to you and

780
01:02:58,820 --> 01:03:01,460
that really helps kind of process your emotions. And

781
01:03:01,460 --> 01:03:04,380
that's, I think what Uncharted did for me, and for a lot of

782
01:03:04,380 --> 01:03:06,380
people that I've talked to that haven't listened to it or played

783
01:03:06,380 --> 01:03:10,980
it is that you are almost forced to just kind of process those

784
01:03:10,980 --> 01:03:14,980
emotions. And I think it's, it's good to do that. You know, we

785
01:03:14,980 --> 01:03:18,500
should, I'm very much a person who likes to just kind of shove

786
01:03:18,500 --> 01:03:22,340
my emotions under a carpet. And so I think in music, I found

787
01:03:22,340 --> 01:03:27,260
that I can, I can go, I can process those emotions. And it's

788
01:03:28,220 --> 01:03:31,860
not as scary. And so I think the, you know, the whole the

789
01:03:31,900 --> 01:03:35,540
title, I guess we didn't really talk about the title Uncharted.

790
01:03:35,860 --> 01:03:40,660
I guess it lends to the idea of, you know, Uncharted Waters, the

791
01:03:40,660 --> 01:03:45,820
future is definitely Uncharted Waters. And I think sometimes,

792
01:03:45,820 --> 01:03:51,340
you know, Uncharted can be things that you don't, it can be

793
01:03:51,340 --> 01:03:53,700
Uncharted emotions that you have, that you have just been

794
01:03:53,700 --> 01:03:58,300
putting, putting off to the side or anything. So, yeah, I just

795
01:03:58,300 --> 01:04:02,980
hope that anyone who does, you know, either listen to the piece

796
01:04:02,980 --> 01:04:07,860
or play the piece that it does kind of allow you to go through

797
01:04:07,860 --> 01:04:11,820
something and experience and learn and grow and, and hopefully

798
01:04:11,820 --> 01:04:15,900
it can bring more people together. Always the hope,

799
01:04:16,060 --> 01:04:20,940
always the hope. So now we're coming to the final segment of

800
01:04:20,940 --> 01:04:26,860
this podcast, which we always start with a beautifully broad

801
01:04:27,180 --> 01:04:33,980
question, which is, what does music mean to you professionally?

802
01:04:34,020 --> 01:04:37,980
Or well, professionally, it's a way of making a living. But I

803
01:04:37,980 --> 01:04:42,300
suppose, just personally, what does music mean to you in your

804
01:04:42,300 --> 01:04:45,580
life? You kind of gave a little bit of it previously.

805
01:04:46,740 --> 01:04:50,420
Yeah, definitely for me, it's been away from, I'm, it's kind

806
01:04:50,420 --> 01:04:52,900
of ironic that I'm doing a podcast because I'm definitely

807
01:04:52,900 --> 01:04:56,340
someone who has a hard time expressing kind of their

808
01:04:56,340 --> 01:05:00,980
thoughts and ideas. And, and I think, and probably that's part

809
01:05:00,980 --> 01:05:03,220
of it might be coming from like, you know, growing up with three

810
01:05:03,220 --> 01:05:06,540
languages in the household, but like, you know, when it comes to

811
01:05:06,540 --> 01:05:09,660
the kind of forming sentences and forming ideas and really

812
01:05:09,660 --> 01:05:13,580
trying to get at the root of what I want to say, I have a

813
01:05:14,380 --> 01:05:19,420
terrible time. I'm trying to doing that. And so I found that

814
01:05:19,420 --> 01:05:24,820
in music, it's the only space where I can express myself fully.

815
01:05:24,860 --> 01:05:29,100
Like, I feel like I'm not hiding anything. I feel like I'm not,

816
01:05:29,260 --> 01:05:32,140
I'm not getting lost in translation, or I'm not getting

817
01:05:32,180 --> 01:05:35,660
kind of my words mixed up or anything. And weariness and

818
01:05:35,660 --> 01:05:42,740
mariness. And I, I just, for me, that's what music has has

819
01:05:43,180 --> 01:05:46,540
opened up for me. And I mean, obviously, music has opened up a

820
01:05:46,580 --> 01:05:50,500
world of opportunities for myself as well, like, you know,

821
01:05:50,500 --> 01:05:54,580
meeting amazing people like yourself and, you know, talking

822
01:05:54,580 --> 01:05:59,620
about your previous guests, Nadine, you know, getting to,

823
01:06:00,140 --> 01:06:03,700
and just countless of other musicians I've worked with

824
01:06:03,700 --> 01:06:09,460
Britain for, played with, and it's, it's just been the source

825
01:06:09,500 --> 01:06:15,860
of community and source of camaraderie and just an air of

826
01:06:15,940 --> 01:06:21,420
a space where yeah, I feel like I can be myself and, and, and

827
01:06:21,860 --> 01:06:24,580
express myself fully. And then kind of out of the

828
01:06:24,580 --> 01:06:29,860
philosophical, it's like music also is universal in the sense

829
01:06:29,860 --> 01:06:33,660
that like, you know, all cultures have a form of music, we

830
01:06:33,660 --> 01:06:36,060
can relate to each other through music. You know, I've played

831
01:06:36,060 --> 01:06:39,820
with musicians where we've never kind of formally said a word to

832
01:06:39,820 --> 01:06:42,620
each other, because we don't speak the same language. And,

833
01:06:42,980 --> 01:06:45,660
but somehow we pull off a, you know, a whole concert together.

834
01:06:45,700 --> 01:06:50,700
And so that's kind of the magic, I guess that that is in music.

835
01:06:51,500 --> 01:06:54,860
Certainly is. And I appreciate the compliment. It's very nice

836
01:06:54,860 --> 01:06:59,260
to interact and collaborate with yourself as well. And speaking

837
01:06:59,260 --> 01:07:03,980
of community, what are your thoughts and feelings? How do

838
01:07:03,980 --> 01:07:08,700
you see the current landscape of composition, whether that's in

839
01:07:08,700 --> 01:07:13,260
academics outside of it, on the performance stage outside of the

840
01:07:13,260 --> 01:07:16,020
performance hall? How do you see composition right now?

841
01:07:17,220 --> 01:07:22,580
Yeah, I mean, one of my kind of idols as far as like clarinitis

842
01:07:22,580 --> 01:07:26,700
composers, I have several, I mean, I should name all of them.

843
01:07:26,700 --> 01:07:30,860
But anyways, the person who said this was Jonathan Russell, he,

844
01:07:31,300 --> 01:07:38,340
he said, anyone can compose. And I, that kind of really changed.

845
01:07:39,300 --> 01:07:43,500
It really hit me hard. Because when I was younger, I was playing

846
01:07:43,500 --> 01:07:46,140
clarinet in band and I'd never been really formally trained in

847
01:07:46,140 --> 01:07:49,140
composition in high school, or, you know, kind of leading up

848
01:07:49,140 --> 01:07:52,260
into college and then, but I had always been writing when I was

849
01:07:52,260 --> 01:07:55,540
younger, I can remember as far as back as like my first band

850
01:07:55,540 --> 01:08:00,300
piece was in sixth grade, you know, like, so, and I think,

851
01:08:00,340 --> 01:08:04,140
like, from that, I, I, you know, went and went into college and

852
01:08:04,180 --> 01:08:06,500
we had, I've previously spoken to you that, you know, someone

853
01:08:06,500 --> 01:08:09,940
had found me like hunched over my computer composing and they're

854
01:08:09,940 --> 01:08:13,700
like, Hey, you should probably like, join the composition studio,

855
01:08:13,700 --> 01:08:16,340
your music is pretty cool. And then I was like, no, I don't

856
01:08:16,340 --> 01:08:19,380
compose, you know, just like being afraid to kind of own

857
01:08:19,380 --> 01:08:24,180
that. And even after studying, I had had three composition

858
01:08:24,180 --> 01:08:28,500
teachers, and like, I've written several pieces now and sell my

859
01:08:28,500 --> 01:08:31,860
music. And even to this day, I still have a bit of myself that

860
01:08:31,860 --> 01:08:34,700
has that like imposter syndrome of like, oh, but, you know, I'm

861
01:08:34,700 --> 01:08:37,780
technically just a clarinetist, but it's like now, you know, a

862
01:08:37,780 --> 01:08:41,980
lot of my part, a huge part of my kind of living right now is

863
01:08:41,980 --> 01:08:49,220
composing. And so when he said that it kind of made it kind of

864
01:08:49,220 --> 01:08:55,220
demystified, kind of this title of composer for me. And so I

865
01:08:55,220 --> 01:08:59,140
think that's one aspect of the compositional landscape that I

866
01:08:59,140 --> 01:09:01,860
think I want I would like to see a bit more change is that

867
01:09:02,100 --> 01:09:06,500
sometimes it is that kind of like, exclusive club, you know,

868
01:09:06,500 --> 01:09:09,620
like, you have to earn your badge of like, you, you are now

869
01:09:09,620 --> 01:09:13,220
officially a composer, you know, it's like, but no, any

870
01:09:13,220 --> 01:09:16,020
literally anyone can write and I think what's cool is that in pop

871
01:09:16,020 --> 01:09:18,860
music, like that's also very prevalent, like, you know, you

872
01:09:18,860 --> 01:09:22,660
don't have to be signed to it to a record label, or you can just,

873
01:09:22,940 --> 01:09:25,780
you know, some people have their music go viral, just on like

874
01:09:25,780 --> 01:09:29,780
social media, and kind of gain traction from there and grow

875
01:09:29,780 --> 01:09:34,420
following that way. And I think the same can kind of go for art

876
01:09:34,420 --> 01:09:38,300
music and art, you know, more of like the composition, like when

877
01:09:38,300 --> 01:09:41,020
we think of formal compositions, right, we think of more art,

878
01:09:41,020 --> 01:09:46,060
the art music side, we don't think, like, pop musicians as

879
01:09:46,060 --> 01:09:49,300
composers, but yeah, they are like, or whoever writes their

880
01:09:49,300 --> 01:09:52,020
music, sometimes, you know, they, they have music written

881
01:09:52,020 --> 01:09:55,860
for them, and they just perform it. But I think, yeah, this just

882
01:09:55,900 --> 01:09:59,980
building this notion that anyone can compose, yes, like art, some

883
01:09:59,980 --> 01:10:02,300
composer, like, there's some compositions gonna be better

884
01:10:02,300 --> 01:10:04,780
than others. I mean, I even have some compositions that I'm

885
01:10:04,780 --> 01:10:09,100
like, you really want to play that one, you know, so. So I

886
01:10:09,100 --> 01:10:13,140
think, like, you just never know what music will speak to a

887
01:10:13,140 --> 01:10:17,060
person. But, and yeah, obviously, studying it and

888
01:10:17,060 --> 01:10:20,660
training and learning more, and all that's great. But at the end

889
01:10:20,660 --> 01:10:22,940
of the day, when you have a piece that you're really proud

890
01:10:22,940 --> 01:10:26,540
of, and you've written and, you know, no reason not to kind of

891
01:10:26,900 --> 01:10:27,980
put it out there in the world.

892
01:10:28,660 --> 01:10:34,340
Sure, sure. And I really like what you said specifically with,

893
01:10:35,340 --> 01:10:40,700
you know, pop, pop artists as composers, I have a pretty loose

894
01:10:40,700 --> 01:10:43,900
way of using definitions, which is not always very helpful in

895
01:10:43,900 --> 01:10:47,140
scholarship. But like, for example, when you talk about

896
01:10:47,140 --> 01:10:50,180
counterpoint, I see almost everything as some level of

897
01:10:50,180 --> 01:10:53,580
counterpoint at some fundamental level. But counterpoint really is

898
01:10:53,580 --> 01:10:57,940
referring to a specific style of note to note combinations from a

899
01:10:57,940 --> 01:11:00,860
certain type of, like, that's the technical version. But I see

900
01:11:00,940 --> 01:11:03,300
all kinds of music has counterpoint fundamentally,

901
01:11:03,300 --> 01:11:07,060
because it's musical lines interacting. I see composition

902
01:11:07,060 --> 01:11:11,820
in the same way. You know, I think I brought this up to you

903
01:11:11,820 --> 01:11:14,700
before. And any regular listeners of the show or people

904
01:11:14,700 --> 01:11:18,460
who know me personally, I love pop music so incredibly dearly.

905
01:11:18,500 --> 01:11:23,500
It's what I primarily like to study and just listen to. And I

906
01:11:23,500 --> 01:11:27,860
recently I told my, and this is segmenting into the next

907
01:11:27,860 --> 01:11:31,780
question, I recently, actually on the first day of classes with

908
01:11:31,780 --> 01:11:35,500
my songwriting class that I teach at Florida State

909
01:11:35,500 --> 01:11:40,580
University, I told the students very plainly that you need music

910
01:11:40,580 --> 01:11:44,060
theory for songwriting, but songwriting is not music theory.

911
01:11:44,820 --> 01:11:50,140
And, you know, songwriting, composition, I would put

912
01:11:50,140 --> 01:11:53,460
composition in there instead of songwriting, depending on who

913
01:11:53,460 --> 01:11:57,780
talking to. But to me, it's all composition. To me, it's, well,

914
01:11:57,780 --> 01:12:00,660
it's not all, they're not all songs, but it's all writing, you

915
01:12:00,660 --> 01:12:05,180
know, like, I see that as one in the same. There's, there's

916
01:12:05,180 --> 01:12:07,620
different connotations to each just like you're earlier, we

917
01:12:07,620 --> 01:12:10,220
were talking about anger, frustration, so on. Should those

918
01:12:10,220 --> 01:12:14,340
connotations be there? That's an entire other conversation, and

919
01:12:14,340 --> 01:12:19,740
usually gets into like, elitism, in my opinion, at least. But

920
01:12:20,220 --> 01:12:25,020
segueing into music theory. So I just said that, you know, that

921
01:12:25,020 --> 01:12:27,620
you need music theory for composition, but composition is

922
01:12:27,620 --> 01:12:30,540
not music theory. What are your thoughts on that? And maybe more

923
01:12:30,540 --> 01:12:34,060
just broadly, your thoughts on music theory as an institution,

924
01:12:34,060 --> 01:12:38,020
and its interactions in and around composition?

925
01:12:38,700 --> 01:12:41,900
Yeah, I mean, going to go, obviously, I've gone through

926
01:12:41,900 --> 01:12:45,660
like the music theory classes and analyze music and

927
01:12:45,660 --> 01:12:50,540
everything. And, and I would say that it definitely has informed

928
01:12:50,620 --> 01:12:53,620
a lot of my music. But when it comes to kind of composition,

929
01:12:53,660 --> 01:12:56,260
I'll tell you a quick funny story is that as I was going

930
01:12:56,260 --> 01:13:00,300
through music theory, so I'd be writing compositions, and then

931
01:13:00,300 --> 01:13:03,660
I'd be like, wow, this is really cool. Like, oh, you can't like

932
01:13:03,660 --> 01:13:06,900
do parallel fits, right, or whatever. And then I wrote, and

933
01:13:06,900 --> 01:13:09,700
I was like, let me write a piece of like, all parallel fits, and

934
01:13:09,700 --> 01:13:11,780
like, just have it moving around. And all this sounds really

935
01:13:11,780 --> 01:13:14,500
cool. I'm inventing something. And then, you know, lo and

936
01:13:14,500 --> 01:13:16,620
behold, it's just called planning, you know, like,

937
01:13:16,740 --> 01:13:22,860
obviously, like, and so it was just like, me constantly doing

938
01:13:22,860 --> 01:13:26,740
that, I'm just like, you know, discovering that what I was

939
01:13:26,740 --> 01:13:29,220
writing, and then, oh, that like, how that technique or

940
01:13:29,220 --> 01:13:33,060
like that kind of thing I did compositionally, as an

941
01:13:33,060 --> 01:13:36,860
analysis, or like, it has kind of like, it has a name for it.

942
01:13:37,220 --> 01:13:42,220
And so that's, you know, that's been kind of how I went through

943
01:13:42,220 --> 01:13:45,460
music theory, it was just like, always relating it in with

944
01:13:45,460 --> 01:13:48,700
composition. And now just understanding like, oh, that's

945
01:13:48,700 --> 01:13:53,540
why I like how I did this in my composition. But I would say

946
01:13:53,540 --> 01:13:56,500
like, even when I'm composing, sometimes, I would say majority

947
01:13:56,500 --> 01:14:00,260
of the time, I'm not like, I'm not like, you know, going, okay,

948
01:14:00,260 --> 01:14:02,940
I want a five chord here, and then I want to like, you know, I

949
01:14:02,940 --> 01:14:05,540
want to go to a four chord, but in second inversion, you know,

950
01:14:05,540 --> 01:14:08,860
I'm not really like, thinking of that. I'm more, yeah, thinking

951
01:14:08,860 --> 01:14:13,700
like, quote unquote, like, counterpoint, or the lines, I'm

952
01:14:13,700 --> 01:14:16,980
really thinking of the lines and how they're interacting with

953
01:14:16,980 --> 01:14:19,660
each other, and then what harmonies kind of results in

954
01:14:19,660 --> 01:14:24,780
that. And then is it the is the harmony, like, what I want? And

955
01:14:24,780 --> 01:14:29,540
like, is it flowing correctly? But I would say that when it

956
01:14:29,540 --> 01:14:33,420
comes to like music theory, I definitely, at one point, like,

957
01:14:33,420 --> 01:14:36,020
I was like, maybe I want to be like, go into music theory. And

958
01:14:36,020 --> 01:14:39,980
like, that was like, kind of the route I wanted to go into. But

959
01:14:41,100 --> 01:14:43,420
I think I just had, I had more fun writing the music than

960
01:14:43,420 --> 01:14:48,220
analyzing my music. But I think it's important to have music

961
01:14:48,220 --> 01:14:50,900
theorists out there. Because then, you know, when you have,

962
01:14:51,860 --> 01:14:55,420
sometimes you have composers that like, you know, they've

963
01:14:55,420 --> 01:14:59,380
written something, but they're not quite. And I've run into

964
01:14:59,380 --> 01:15:01,460
places where I'm not quite sure, like, why it works, you know,

965
01:15:01,460 --> 01:15:05,500
or like, why it fits that way. Like, I'll sometimes I'll spend

966
01:15:05,500 --> 01:15:08,300
hours just kind of like playing a chord and trying to get it to

967
01:15:08,300 --> 01:15:10,740
the next chord. And I'm just like, that doesn't feel right.

968
01:15:10,780 --> 01:15:12,660
That doesn't feel right. That doesn't feel right. And I keep

969
01:15:12,660 --> 01:15:14,660
playing back and forth between two different chords and how

970
01:15:14,660 --> 01:15:17,620
they like how the spacing works out. And when I finally, you

971
01:15:17,620 --> 01:15:19,780
know, find it, then in hindsight, I kind of look back

972
01:15:19,780 --> 01:15:21,340
and I'm like, Oh, yeah, that's why I have voice leading here.

973
01:15:21,340 --> 01:15:25,620
And I'm like, Oh, that's like, that's kind of and then kind of

974
01:15:25,620 --> 01:15:28,100
zooming out to just like, oh, and then that chord leads into

975
01:15:28,100 --> 01:15:30,220
one. And it's like, you know, now you have a good progression

976
01:15:30,220 --> 01:15:36,100
here, x, y, z. And so I would say when it comes to music

977
01:15:36,100 --> 01:15:38,980
theory and composition, it's definitely how do I want to say

978
01:15:38,980 --> 01:15:42,180
this, they're coupled in a way that it's like a symbiotic

979
01:15:42,180 --> 01:15:44,260
relationship. That's what I wanted to say. So like, yeah,

980
01:15:44,540 --> 01:15:46,540
like definitely music theory, like composition, they have a

981
01:15:46,580 --> 01:15:48,100
very symbiotic relationship.

982
01:15:48,260 --> 01:15:51,940
I would agree. But then I would also disagree that that's

983
01:15:51,940 --> 01:15:56,340
actually what's happening. In that, in my perspective, I

984
01:15:56,340 --> 01:15:59,500
completely agree with you is highly symbiotic for there to be

985
01:15:59,500 --> 01:16:03,180
music theorists. There needed to be and needs to be composers.

986
01:16:03,460 --> 01:16:07,780
Someone has to write the music. And but I would argue, you

987
01:16:07,780 --> 01:16:12,580
know, other than in an academic setting of like peers helping

988
01:16:12,580 --> 01:16:15,780
each other, are there truly that many music theorists looking at

989
01:16:15,780 --> 01:16:19,700
music that is currently being written? I'm not trying to like

990
01:16:19,700 --> 01:16:23,980
put myself out from the crowd. But I just I get a feeling that

991
01:16:23,980 --> 01:16:28,940
that is not not that everyone is analyzing old dead white

992
01:16:28,940 --> 01:16:32,220
European guys, but that that's, you know, throughout the history

993
01:16:32,220 --> 01:16:36,420
theory, that's the majority. And I would still say now maybe 50%.

994
01:16:36,420 --> 01:16:41,860
There's a lot of popular music going on. And newer music for

995
01:16:41,860 --> 01:16:46,660
music theory is still like in the 50s and 60s and 70s. With

996
01:16:46,660 --> 01:16:49,020
exceptions, of course, there's some people doing some great

997
01:16:49,020 --> 01:16:53,860
work, Judy Lockhead in particular, I really like. But I

998
01:16:53,860 --> 01:16:59,500
am my, again, I'm 23. In my second year of my master's, it's

999
01:16:59,500 --> 01:17:04,300
not like I have a grand scope of perspective. I just don't feel

1000
01:17:04,300 --> 01:17:10,020
the love for modern composition in academic well, music theory

1001
01:17:10,020 --> 01:17:14,500
is academic. I don't feel it in music theory. If you know what I

1002
01:17:14,500 --> 01:17:14,860
mean?

1003
01:17:16,180 --> 01:17:20,540
Yeah, no, I think like, totally true in the sense that, you know,

1004
01:17:20,540 --> 01:17:25,260
I have my story I was thinking about is in at least in the

1005
01:17:25,260 --> 01:17:29,660
clarinet world, right? The music that's written today is

1006
01:17:29,660 --> 01:17:32,220
considered contemporary music, right? That contemporary means

1007
01:17:32,220 --> 01:17:38,420
like of this day. And so in there was like, when I was going

1008
01:17:38,420 --> 01:17:43,460
into graduate auditions, there was one audition I took, and I

1009
01:17:43,460 --> 01:17:47,460
was playing at a contemporary piece, the composer was alive.

1010
01:17:47,460 --> 01:17:50,460
It was a piece I was learning. And it had, you know, kind of

1011
01:17:50,740 --> 01:17:54,580
extended techniques and stuff like that. And the person, I

1012
01:17:54,580 --> 01:17:56,460
kind of was like, Oh, why are you saying that you should play

1013
01:17:56,460 --> 01:17:58,980
like real contemporary music like Stravinsky. And I was like,

1014
01:18:00,220 --> 01:18:03,460
Oh, yeah, okay. I was like, Okay, sure. Stravinsky is

1015
01:18:03,500 --> 01:18:07,420
definitely contemporary music. Okay. And then, you know,

1016
01:18:07,420 --> 01:18:12,380
obviously didn't study there. But the that was like, that

1017
01:18:12,380 --> 01:18:15,700
was definitely like, I think still rings true today that I

1018
01:18:15,700 --> 01:18:18,940
still find people saying Stravinsky is contemporary music

1019
01:18:18,940 --> 01:18:22,740
and, you know, it's like, honestly, the joke I hear about

1020
01:18:22,740 --> 01:18:26,460
is Schoenberg is contemporary, but Stravinsky even really?

1021
01:18:26,460 --> 01:18:30,060
Yeah, like, that's not to Stravinsky is awesome. But like,

1022
01:18:30,060 --> 01:18:32,940
really, that's not contemporary. Yeah, I mean, not just

1023
01:18:32,940 --> 01:18:36,300
counting at all, because, yeah, his music definitely like was

1024
01:18:36,340 --> 01:18:40,500
very transformative and kind of revolutionary. But, you know,

1025
01:18:40,500 --> 01:18:43,620
there's also a lot more revolutionary things happening

1026
01:18:43,620 --> 01:18:46,300
today. I mean, I saw there's this really cool piece where

1027
01:18:46,300 --> 01:18:51,060
it's like, it's, again, a clarinet piece, just because I

1028
01:18:51,060 --> 01:18:57,380
have a clarinet. But it's Eric Mann, that he he has this, this

1029
01:18:57,380 --> 01:19:00,180
device that you can like, attach to yourself so that you can,

1030
01:19:00,220 --> 01:19:03,980
it's a you're, you're playing and then depending on your

1031
01:19:03,980 --> 01:19:06,900
movements, right, it triggers like different things

1032
01:19:06,900 --> 01:19:10,060
electronically. And so it's like, I think it uses like an

1033
01:19:10,100 --> 01:19:12,660
Xbox Connect and like, that's how it tracks your movement. And

1034
01:19:12,660 --> 01:19:15,380
like, you're, you know, and it's like all this spatial stuff.

1035
01:19:15,380 --> 01:19:18,140
And so like, there's like, that is like, cool. Like, how do you

1036
01:19:18,140 --> 01:19:21,060
you know, like, that would be amazing for like a music

1037
01:19:21,060 --> 01:19:24,140
theorist to just kind of like, okay, let's like dissect this.

1038
01:19:24,540 --> 01:19:27,620
You know, like, how do we how do we just like dissect this? And

1039
01:19:27,620 --> 01:19:29,820
like, now it's like, you know, combination of things, not only

1040
01:19:29,820 --> 01:19:32,820
is it like music, it's, you have the electronic aspects, you have

1041
01:19:32,820 --> 01:19:37,780
then this like movement aspect, and it's more like, and that in

1042
01:19:37,780 --> 01:19:40,820
the movement is music, like you are making music with your

1043
01:19:40,820 --> 01:19:43,740
movement. So that's a whole nother kind of realm of just,

1044
01:19:43,980 --> 01:19:46,340
we don't have any tools to analyze that, you know, so it's

1045
01:19:46,340 --> 01:19:48,660
like, that would that should be that would be a great like,

1046
01:19:48,660 --> 01:19:52,300
kind of, you know, music theorists thing, like, you know,

1047
01:19:52,300 --> 01:19:55,220
you're someone had to create, you know, Roman numerals,

1048
01:19:55,220 --> 01:19:59,100
someone had to create like, 12 tone analysis, someone should

1049
01:19:59,100 --> 01:20:07,900
create like, Xbox Connect. So I think like, yeah, definitely the

1050
01:20:07,900 --> 01:20:11,340
idea you had mentioned, you had brought up this idea of

1051
01:20:11,380 --> 01:20:15,740
elitism. And I think definitely, kind of going through, you know,

1052
01:20:15,740 --> 01:20:21,300
the whole gamut of academia, there, that is very much

1053
01:20:21,300 --> 01:20:25,380
prevalent in that I think it's academia, not to like kind of

1054
01:20:25,380 --> 01:20:27,780
be shadowed, you know, shadow banned by academia, but like, I

1055
01:20:27,780 --> 01:20:30,700
feel like they are kind of holding on to those remnants of

1056
01:20:30,820 --> 01:20:34,540
elitism, because they kind of, they've set it up where they

1057
01:20:34,540 --> 01:20:40,140
have to, in that if it's, you know, that you have to like,

1058
01:20:40,300 --> 01:20:43,980
prove your worth to be studied in a sense, like, you know, it's

1059
01:20:43,980 --> 01:20:47,900
like, there's, but how do you prove your worth when it's

1060
01:20:47,900 --> 01:20:51,300
something like brand new, you know, and when it hasn't been,

1061
01:20:51,300 --> 01:20:53,980
you know, quote unquote, stood the test of time. And I think

1062
01:20:53,980 --> 01:20:57,100
that's why they hang on to like, analyzing older music is

1063
01:20:57,100 --> 01:20:59,100
because oh, it's the test of time, we don't know if this new

1064
01:20:59,100 --> 01:21:02,020
stuff is going to like be here in 10 years, or 20 years or 30

1065
01:21:02,020 --> 01:21:03,060
years, you know?

1066
01:21:03,060 --> 01:21:06,900
Sure. Yeah. And, you know, recently, and I'm going to keep

1067
01:21:06,900 --> 01:21:13,140
their identity a mystery out of respect. Recently, I had a very

1068
01:21:13,140 --> 01:21:18,780
great conversation with one of my professors. And, you know, I

1069
01:21:18,780 --> 01:21:23,740
was essentially asking them because doctoral school, PhD

1070
01:21:23,740 --> 01:21:28,300
program applications are coming up for myself. And, you know, I

1071
01:21:28,300 --> 01:21:31,140
showed them the theorist composer collaboration, I said

1072
01:21:31,140 --> 01:21:35,980
I'm really interested in analyzing pop music and

1073
01:21:35,980 --> 01:21:39,780
contemporary music, which as you know, I said to them that

1074
01:21:40,620 --> 01:21:45,380
doesn't mean anything, the contemporary part. Because, you

1075
01:21:45,380 --> 01:21:49,660
know, contemporary music could be a re-quintet or Xbox connect

1076
01:21:49,700 --> 01:21:53,700
analysis, you know, like, and that's the beauty of it too, is

1077
01:21:53,700 --> 01:21:57,220
that there's just so much variety in every single

1078
01:21:57,220 --> 01:22:00,900
capacity. That's part of the beauty of it. But I was sure

1079
01:22:00,900 --> 01:22:05,100
I was showing them the TCC, not that this is going to be like my

1080
01:22:05,100 --> 01:22:08,500
main thing, but you know, how do I take these skills and these

1081
01:22:08,500 --> 01:22:12,660
perspectives and I have a handful of pieces that I really

1082
01:22:12,660 --> 01:22:16,420
want to dive in depth, some that have been featured on this

1083
01:22:16,420 --> 01:22:20,740
podcast to like study and make conference proposals and like

1084
01:22:20,820 --> 01:22:25,540
really make scholarship out of it. And bless their heart

1085
01:22:25,540 --> 01:22:29,220
because they were so supportive, but they were being very real

1086
01:22:29,220 --> 01:22:37,140
that the, you know, to be a viable job candidate and PhD

1087
01:22:37,220 --> 01:22:43,860
applicant, you can't have that broad contemporary music be your

1088
01:22:43,860 --> 01:22:49,860
flagship as but and you know, that's just the reality. And

1089
01:22:49,860 --> 01:22:53,460
this person not to, you know, in the past couple of years just

1090
01:22:53,460 --> 01:22:57,700
went off the job market and bless them, they're doing a

1091
01:22:57,700 --> 01:23:02,100
great job. And in the past handful of years, and they were

1092
01:23:02,100 --> 01:23:05,540
very on it, you know, it's not going to work or that really

1093
01:23:05,540 --> 01:23:08,740
limits yourself. But and that's not to speak ill of them,

1094
01:23:08,740 --> 01:23:11,780
because then we talked about how I can incorporate that into my

1095
01:23:11,780 --> 01:23:15,700
application and how this is a great thing for so and so and

1096
01:23:15,700 --> 01:23:20,100
so. But so they were very supportive in how I can

1097
01:23:20,100 --> 01:23:22,980
incorporate that part of myself. But that is just the

1098
01:23:22,980 --> 01:23:27,940
reality of it. And, you know, that's something we got to contend

1099
01:23:27,940 --> 01:23:30,180
with that leads to the panic.

1100
01:23:32,740 --> 01:23:34,020
Yes, the comfortable circle. Yeah,

1101
01:23:34,100 --> 01:23:37,380
yes, it comes to come full circle. So yeah, again, not to

1102
01:23:38,500 --> 01:23:40,900
that was a beautiful I had a great conversation with that

1103
01:23:40,900 --> 01:23:45,780
professor. But you know, that's, that's how it is. It just,

1104
01:23:47,620 --> 01:23:51,860
yeah, I was gonna say like, yeah, and in some cases, you have

1105
01:23:51,860 --> 01:23:54,820
to, I mean, not to say that we're all playing a game, but

1106
01:23:54,820 --> 01:23:57,220
like, you know, you sometimes you have to play the game,

1107
01:23:57,220 --> 01:24:00,420
right, you have to follow the rules and, and do the thing if

1108
01:24:00,420 --> 01:24:04,580
you want to kind of have a shot at being able to do something,

1109
01:24:04,980 --> 01:24:08,900
like make change later in a sense, right. So I think the

1110
01:24:08,900 --> 01:24:12,660
important thing is to, like never lose sight of your first

1111
01:24:12,660 --> 01:24:17,220
kind of, like why you're doing it. And I think that's a kind

1112
01:24:17,220 --> 01:24:21,460
of my my biggest thing I've discovered recently is like, you

1113
01:24:21,460 --> 01:24:23,460
just have to hang on to like, why you're doing it. And no

1114
01:24:23,460 --> 01:24:27,540
matter what kind of hoops, you're jumping through. And

1115
01:24:27,620 --> 01:24:31,780
hoops, you have to jump through to kind of make it as long as

1116
01:24:31,780 --> 01:24:34,580
you hang on to your your why, you know, when you wherever you

1117
01:24:34,580 --> 01:24:37,700
end up, like that's as long as that's kind of your salient

1118
01:24:37,700 --> 01:24:41,060
guiding light, then anything you do in your career, anything

1119
01:24:41,060 --> 01:24:45,860
that you kind of develop will always lead back to your true

1120
01:24:45,860 --> 01:24:49,060
self and like your true why why why you started doing it. And

1121
01:24:49,060 --> 01:24:53,140
so for me, like, why I started composing and why continue, you

1122
01:24:53,140 --> 01:24:57,940
know, this like life as a musician, even though like, you

1123
01:24:57,940 --> 01:24:59,780
know, everyone says, you know, there's so many music and blah,

1124
01:24:59,780 --> 01:25:01,780
blah, blah, and like, it's the heart one of the hardest

1125
01:25:01,780 --> 01:25:04,500
degrees, and also one of the hardest, like careers to kind of

1126
01:25:04,500 --> 01:25:09,140
just have my passion for just like keeping how it made me feel

1127
01:25:09,140 --> 01:25:12,100
going through it alive and passing that on to my students

1128
01:25:12,100 --> 01:25:17,700
and, and kind of creating a world where it is better and it

1129
01:25:17,700 --> 01:25:21,460
continues to improve. And then, like, that's why I can you I

1130
01:25:21,460 --> 01:25:24,420
continue to write music and why I continue to teach and why I

1131
01:25:24,420 --> 01:25:27,540
continue to perform is because it's all moments where I can

1132
01:25:28,260 --> 01:25:31,620
kind of make small changes, whether it be just, you know,

1133
01:25:32,340 --> 01:25:35,860
saying, you know, have being a person that, that looks like

1134
01:25:35,860 --> 01:25:39,860
myself and someone who who may not see other people like that

1135
01:25:39,860 --> 01:25:43,620
look like them on stage. That has been like a big thing for

1136
01:25:43,620 --> 01:25:46,660
me of, of meeting, you know, other musicians that are also

1137
01:25:46,660 --> 01:25:49,300
you know, come from a diverse background or just even, you

1138
01:25:49,300 --> 01:25:51,700
know, sometimes it's just, you know, they're like, oh, you're,

1139
01:25:51,700 --> 01:25:54,820
you're, you're part Filipino, like I am too. And then you're

1140
01:25:54,820 --> 01:25:59,220
kind of connecting in that way. And then even in my music to

1141
01:25:59,220 --> 01:26:04,180
just like highlighting things and and working with musicians

1142
01:26:04,180 --> 01:26:09,780
that maybe don't have a chance to, to have music written for

1143
01:26:09,780 --> 01:26:14,740
them or, or, you know, whatever it is, I just, I think it's easy

1144
01:26:14,740 --> 01:26:20,900
to have people say no to you and then kind of give up. But I

1145
01:26:20,900 --> 01:26:25,700
think, yes, let them say no to you. But and kind of, you know,

1146
01:26:25,700 --> 01:26:29,540
kind of shuffle around and do do what you need to as far as

1147
01:26:29,540 --> 01:26:32,580
like the game. And then when you have your opportunity to

1148
01:26:32,580 --> 01:26:36,900
start injecting your why back into what you do, then, you

1149
01:26:36,900 --> 01:26:40,100
know, that's that that's kind of all you can do. And then, and

1150
01:26:40,100 --> 01:26:42,740
eventually, all those little moments, all those little

1151
01:26:42,740 --> 01:26:46,180
changes you can like add in, will add up. And I think that's

1152
01:26:46,180 --> 01:26:48,660
what a lot of people are doing right now, especially even in

1153
01:26:48,660 --> 01:26:51,780
people I know in academia, that feel that same way, right? They

1154
01:26:51,780 --> 01:26:54,980
played the game, they got the job, and now they're trying to

1155
01:26:54,980 --> 01:26:55,700
slowly change it.

1156
01:26:57,060 --> 01:27:02,260
Sure, sure. All to bring it back to, you know, the the theme

1157
01:27:02,260 --> 01:27:07,860
of the last movement, hope and looking forward, you know. So,

1158
01:27:08,660 --> 01:27:11,700
now we're coming to the close of this podcast, but

1159
01:27:11,700 --> 01:27:16,740
so it sounds like you have a very light work schedule. But I

1160
01:27:16,740 --> 01:27:23,940
ask you, and of course, that's a joke. But I ask you, what are

1161
01:27:25,700 --> 01:27:29,700
what's next for you? What's going on? I have big projects

1162
01:27:29,700 --> 01:27:32,180
coming up, things looking off in the horizon.

1163
01:27:32,980 --> 01:27:36,820
Yes, I've mentioned it's like, sometimes I don't like to think

1164
01:27:36,820 --> 01:27:39,460
about all the projects coming up, because it gets a little

1165
01:27:39,460 --> 01:27:45,060
overwhelming. I start to panic. So, but yeah, no, I've got like,

1166
01:27:45,060 --> 01:27:48,980
I'm working on a couple of commissions for this. There's

1167
01:27:48,980 --> 01:27:53,380
this, it's called Low Clarinet Fest. And it's happening here

1168
01:27:53,380 --> 01:27:58,420
in Glendale. It's run by or was conceived by Stephanie Gardner,

1169
01:27:58,420 --> 01:28:04,580
and she's an amazing clarinetist and really a pioneer in in low

1170
01:28:04,580 --> 01:28:07,460
clarinets, bass clarinet playing, not only that, but just as a

1171
01:28:07,460 --> 01:28:11,780
clarinetist teacher and kind of a community leader and just

1172
01:28:11,780 --> 01:28:15,780
everything. And so I have a couple pieces that are being

1173
01:28:15,780 --> 01:28:20,100
premiered at Low Clarinet Fest, still currently writing them

1174
01:28:20,100 --> 01:28:25,300
actually, so you need to get those done. But it's for, yeah,

1175
01:28:25,300 --> 01:28:29,380
so for low clarinet, low clarinets, and then I've got a

1176
01:28:29,380 --> 01:28:32,740
couple more commissions lined up for next year, like a clarinet

1177
01:28:32,740 --> 01:28:37,700
flute duet. And then I'm actually working with the Rhode

1178
01:28:37,700 --> 01:28:42,420
Island Recording Ensemble, or known as RYRI, to write a

1179
01:28:42,420 --> 01:28:47,940
clarinet concerto with written for a young band. So it's going

1180
01:28:47,940 --> 01:28:51,220
to be a soloist with the intention of a young band

1181
01:28:51,220 --> 01:28:55,540
accompanying them. And so that's, will be in the summer.

1182
01:28:55,540 --> 01:29:01,060
And then after that, I've gotten hopefully, I'm planning to

1183
01:29:01,060 --> 01:29:06,580
do a short concert of my music at Clarinet Fest and hopefully

1184
01:29:06,580 --> 01:29:09,700
hopefully being joined by other people who have commissioned me

1185
01:29:09,700 --> 01:29:14,340
in the past. So I think it's a lot of really great things to

1186
01:29:14,340 --> 01:29:17,060
look forward to. And then obviously just trying to manage

1187
01:29:17,060 --> 01:29:24,180
my studio, my small army of students. And yeah, and then

1188
01:29:24,180 --> 01:29:27,620
I've got like a few exciting things coming up on my website,

1189
01:29:27,620 --> 01:29:33,860
a few launches of different things I can't really get into

1190
01:29:33,860 --> 01:29:38,180
right now, but it's coming up. And I guess by the time this

1191
01:29:38,180 --> 01:29:41,780
podcast is out, everyone will know what I'm talking about.

1192
01:29:41,780 --> 01:29:48,660
Cool, cool. I have plenty of things coming up. I feel you

1193
01:29:48,660 --> 01:29:51,940
with that, where if I think about my upcoming projects, it

1194
01:29:51,940 --> 01:29:57,380
starts to put me in the cycle of the uncharted piece of

1195
01:29:57,380 --> 01:30:02,980
panic and so on, you know, when so much is coming up, but it

1196
01:30:02,980 --> 01:30:05,780
all sounds like great things. And so what would be the best

1197
01:30:05,780 --> 01:30:09,940
way for the audience to contact you for any comments, questions,

1198
01:30:09,940 --> 01:30:12,660
or if you still have any slots for commissions?

1199
01:30:13,860 --> 01:30:19,300
Yes. Yeah, the best place to kind of find everything about me

1200
01:30:19,300 --> 01:30:22,420
is on my website, which is fjdmusic.com. Sorry, I'll say

1201
01:30:22,420 --> 01:30:29,380
that better. FJDmusic.com. And other than that, I am slowly but

1202
01:30:29,380 --> 01:30:33,540
surely trying to grow a little bit more of a community on

1203
01:30:33,540 --> 01:30:37,620
Instagram. So they can find me at Paco de Alba 33, and that's

1204
01:30:37,620 --> 01:30:42,900
all, you know, at Paco de Alba 33 altogether. And yeah, I

1205
01:30:42,900 --> 01:30:47,780
mainly just share my stuff that happens in my career. I share

1206
01:30:47,780 --> 01:30:52,020
kind of just advice that I thought that, or advice that I

1207
01:30:52,020 --> 01:30:54,740
wish someone would have told me as I was going through, like

1208
01:30:54,740 --> 01:30:58,020
trying to find my way through music and a career music and

1209
01:30:58,020 --> 01:31:01,300
even just music school in general. And then also I like

1210
01:31:01,300 --> 01:31:05,300
just like vlog my day sometimes. So you'll see some kind of fun

1211
01:31:05,300 --> 01:31:09,380
little vlogs here and there. And then yeah, I'm on Facebook.

1212
01:31:10,340 --> 01:31:14,420
My email is contact at fjdmusic.com, and I'm sure you'll

1213
01:31:14,420 --> 01:31:16,900
link that somewhere. Yeah, and so there's plenty of places to

1214
01:31:16,900 --> 01:31:20,740
find me. And yeah, I'd love to connect with pretty much anyone.

1215
01:31:20,740 --> 01:31:23,300
And it could be music theorists, it could be non music, you know,

1216
01:31:23,300 --> 01:31:27,140
it can be clarinets, any instruments. I primarily talked

1217
01:31:27,140 --> 01:31:29,540
about a lot of like clarinet writing and stuff that's coming

1218
01:31:29,540 --> 01:31:33,060
up. But now I've got like tenor saxophone that I've got

1219
01:31:33,060 --> 01:31:36,340
slotted to and like that flute piece I'm writing. And yeah, I

1220
01:31:36,340 --> 01:31:42,100
write for pretty much anything. And yeah, I'd love to connect

1221
01:31:42,100 --> 01:31:46,100
with musicians who are passionate about, yeah, just

1222
01:31:46,100 --> 01:31:50,900
creating a community and hopefully an optimistic future.

1223
01:31:52,260 --> 01:31:55,780
Oh, yes, for sure an optimistic future. And I like that that's

1224
01:31:55,780 --> 01:31:59,700
basically the theme of this episode, optimism in the future.

1225
01:31:59,700 --> 01:32:04,660
And so we're coming to the actual close the episode now.

1226
01:32:04,660 --> 01:32:08,180
And before I ask the last question or prompt you for I want

1227
01:32:08,180 --> 01:32:13,460
to say thank you for your time. To everyone listening, it will

1228
01:32:13,460 --> 01:32:16,340
have been very thoroughly cut out to the best of my ability.

1229
01:32:16,340 --> 01:32:21,300
But apartment maintenance person after a month and a half of

1230
01:32:21,300 --> 01:32:25,380
waiting, it's not it's not his fault. He's a great guy. It's

1231
01:32:25,380 --> 01:32:29,060
the apartment complex's fault has finally arrived in the

1232
01:32:29,060 --> 01:32:32,100
middle of the recording. So thank you for your patience.

1233
01:32:33,300 --> 01:32:35,540
Oh, yeah, no worries at all.

1234
01:32:35,540 --> 01:32:38,980
Yeah, not having a dishwasher for a month and a half can be

1235
01:32:38,980 --> 01:32:41,860
not fun when you have two working adults. But anyway,

1236
01:32:41,860 --> 01:32:47,540
anyways, any anyhow, let's get let's get back to this. So, you

1237
01:32:47,540 --> 01:32:50,340
know, to leave off, I'm going to give you the last note if you

1238
01:32:50,340 --> 01:32:55,460
had to say anything to the audience about music, life,

1239
01:32:56,100 --> 01:32:58,260
personal struggles, we've talked about a fair amount.

1240
01:33:00,180 --> 01:33:01,380
Anything else you want to add?

1241
01:33:02,420 --> 01:33:03,780
Yeah, let me get a good coffin.

1242
01:33:03,780 --> 01:33:12,180
I guess I'm not used to talking so much. I feel like it's just

1243
01:33:12,180 --> 01:33:15,620
so easy to talk to you. And it's such been such great

1244
01:33:15,620 --> 01:33:19,220
conversation. And again, I just really appreciate you having me

1245
01:33:19,220 --> 01:33:21,460
on. Of course, of course.

1246
01:33:21,460 --> 01:33:26,580
And yeah, to anyone, anyone listening, or especially for

1247
01:33:26,580 --> 01:33:29,300
those listening, and if you're you're thinking about the

1248
01:33:29,300 --> 01:33:32,900
future, and if you're in trying to think about a career in

1249
01:33:32,900 --> 01:33:39,140
music or going to music school, I want to offer this, this little

1250
01:33:39,780 --> 01:33:42,580
piece of encouragement in that when you have enough passion

1251
01:33:42,580 --> 01:33:45,300
for something that you really love, kind of just trust in

1252
01:33:45,300 --> 01:33:50,260
that and everything else will follow. My dad, he was a big

1253
01:33:50,260 --> 01:33:55,540
proponent proponent of the idea of that. When you do what you

1254
01:33:55,540 --> 01:34:00,420
love, the money will follow. And at times, I definitely going

1255
01:34:00,420 --> 01:34:04,660
to music school and like, kind of working on jobs and, and just

1256
01:34:04,660 --> 01:34:09,060
trying to like make ends meet on my own. It's, I definitely kind

1257
01:34:09,060 --> 01:34:13,140
of would have lost sight of that if it weren't for my dad. And

1258
01:34:13,700 --> 01:34:17,220
I think now, thinking of where I am, and just hanging on to my

1259
01:34:17,220 --> 01:34:20,580
passion for music, you know, I'm able to travel the world,

1260
01:34:20,580 --> 01:34:25,940
sharing my music, meet amazing musicians perform my music, and

1261
01:34:25,940 --> 01:34:29,620
just, you know, do stuff that I couldn't have ever imagined

1262
01:34:29,620 --> 01:34:34,820
that I'd be able to do. And all that's because I kind of hung

1263
01:34:34,820 --> 01:34:40,100
on, hung on some of the passion I had for music. And so if

1264
01:34:40,100 --> 01:34:44,100
you're listening, like, I think just really trust in your

1265
01:34:44,100 --> 01:34:47,060
passions and just keep fighting for that future that you want,

1266
01:34:47,060 --> 01:34:49,220
then yeah, everything will always get better.

1267
01:34:49,940 --> 01:34:53,460
I love it. Everything will always get better. That's the

1268
01:34:53,460 --> 01:34:59,780
hope. It is. Anyways, okay, well, this has been the

1269
01:34:59,780 --> 01:35:02,660
Theorist Composer collaboration. I want to thank the audience

1270
01:35:02,660 --> 01:35:06,580
for their time. And of course, thank you, Dr. Francisco

1271
01:35:06,580 --> 01:35:12,100
Javier de Alba or Dr. Paco de Alba or Dr. Paco, you have many

1272
01:35:12,100 --> 01:35:16,660
different possibilities. But however, thank you very much for

1273
01:35:16,660 --> 01:35:19,620
your time. Thank you for coming on here. It's been a great

1274
01:35:19,620 --> 01:35:20,260
conversation.

1275
01:35:20,260 --> 01:35:24,020
Very welcome. Yes, this has been really awesome. Thank you.

1276
01:35:24,020 --> 01:35:50,980
Hello, this is Aaron again, and I want to thank you for

1277
01:35:50,980 --> 01:35:54,740
listening to this episode of the Theorist Composer collaboration.

1278
01:35:54,740 --> 01:35:57,780
I also want to give another big thank you to Dr. Francisco

1279
01:35:57,780 --> 01:36:01,060
Javier de Alba for coming on to the podcast and for sharing

1280
01:36:01,060 --> 01:36:04,980
his piece Uncharted. Dr. Paco's contact info is listed in the

1281
01:36:04,980 --> 01:36:07,780
description. I would appreciate it if you could show him some

1282
01:36:07,780 --> 01:36:12,100
support. This was a fantastic episode with a whole bunch of

1283
01:36:12,100 --> 01:36:15,620
different elements. One of my favorite, maybe because it just

1284
01:36:15,620 --> 01:36:19,860
hits so close to home, is the talk of career anxiety. Now, I'm

1285
01:36:19,860 --> 01:36:24,980
not saying that career anxiety is really my favorite thing, but

1286
01:36:24,980 --> 01:36:29,620
maybe it is possibly the most widely applicable to a lot of

1287
01:36:29,620 --> 01:36:34,660
people our age. And as I said in the episode, I'm coming very

1288
01:36:34,660 --> 01:36:40,660
dangerously, oh so soon, close to a doctoral application season

1289
01:36:40,660 --> 01:36:46,340
and career anxiety is certainly one term to describe this time.

1290
01:36:46,340 --> 01:36:49,380
Dr. Paco's perspective on all the different topics that we

1291
01:36:49,380 --> 01:36:52,980
discussed, all the different elements of expression in music

1292
01:36:52,980 --> 01:36:56,500
and conveying these different kinds of dynamic and quite

1293
01:36:56,500 --> 01:37:00,740
frankly very common emotions between all of us, it was a very

1294
01:37:00,740 --> 01:37:04,660
special time. And I just want to give a very special thank you

1295
01:37:04,660 --> 01:37:08,740
once again to Dr. Francisco Javier de Alba for coming on to

1296
01:37:08,740 --> 01:37:12,260
the podcast and for sharing his piece Uncharted. For further

1297
01:37:12,260 --> 01:37:14,660
updates and notifications on the Theorist Composer

1298
01:37:14,660 --> 01:37:17,380
collaboration, make sure to follow our Instagram and Facebook

1299
01:37:17,380 --> 01:37:20,100
pages. You can listen to future episodes through our host

1300
01:37:20,100 --> 01:37:23,380
website, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeart

1301
01:37:23,380 --> 01:37:26,100
Radio, and YouTube. So make sure you subscribe to the

1302
01:37:26,100 --> 01:37:29,220
platform of your choosing. If you want to voluntarily support

1303
01:37:29,220 --> 01:37:32,260
the work of the TCC, you can click the link to our Buy Me a

1304
01:37:32,260 --> 01:37:35,620
Coffee page. All donations are highly appreciated. All of the

1305
01:37:35,620 --> 01:37:38,580
relevant links to follow, listen to, and support the show

1306
01:37:38,580 --> 01:37:42,100
are in the description. TCC episodes are posted every other

1307
01:37:42,100 --> 01:37:45,140
week on Mondays and don't miss our blog post which go live a

1308
01:37:45,140 --> 01:37:48,100
few days after a new episode is added. I'm excited to promote

1309
01:37:48,100 --> 01:37:50,660
that our next featured composer will be Katherine Bergman and

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her piece Land of Cloud Tinted Water. There will be more

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information on this in the upcoming blog post and, of

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course, in the next full episode. Make sure to follow our

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social media accounts and relevant streaming platforms

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because you won't want to miss it. But until then, this is

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Aaron and thank you for joining the TCC.