TCC 29. A Joyous Trilogy - Quinn Mason

[Aaron] Welcome to the Theorist Composer Collaboration, a podcast interview series highlighting modern composers and their compositions. My name is Aaron D’Zurilla. I'm the host of this podcast and also a graduate music theory student at Florida State University. Today I will be talking with the composer Quinn Mason who, alongside his piece, A Joyous Trilogy, is the featured guest for this episode. I talk with Quinn about his background, finding success in collaboration, writing for orchestra, textural storytelling, the potential of modern music theory, and much more. So, without further ado, this is an excerpt from A Joyous Trilogy, and welcome to the TCC. Again, the music that you were just listening to is a piece titled A Joyous Trilogy by the composer Quinn Mason who, alongside his music, is the featured guest for this episode. That leads me to welcome Quinn Mason himself to the program. How are you?

[Quinn] I'm doing well. Thanks so much for having me on.

[Aaron] Of course, and thank you for coming on at this pretty busy time of year. We're recording this on January 2nd. Happy New Year to yourself and everyone listening and happy holidays and so on. So, how about, tell us about yourself, personally, professionally, academically, whatever you choose.

[Quinn] That's always the hardest part for me is talking about myself, but I will do my best. Currently, 28 years old will turn 29 in March. Based in Dallas, Texas, was raised here, necessarily wasn't born here, but I spent most of my life here in Dallas, Texas. So, adopted Texan, you might say. And yeah, pure Texan. I mean, I did my education here. I went to North Dallas High School, I did SMU. I was at TCU for a year, Texas Christian Southern Methodist. And yeah, so most of my roots are right here in Texas. And I find it to be a very supportive music community here. I mean, we have so many different arts organizations. We've got orchestras. We've got, you know, Texas is a big, big band state. So, we got some excellent bands here. We got very active chamber music and everybody is very supportive of each other in this music community. Very rare. So that's why that's primarily why I like it here.

[Aaron] Sure, sure. And I ask this just because Texas is well, there's always so many jokes about how big it is, but it is quite huge. I mean, you got Austin, Dallas, Fort Worth, El Paso, you know, there's so many different corners of the state. Houston, I don't know if I said that. Where do you find yourself typically?

[Quinn] I mean, I go all over, but I'm based right here in Dallas. Live here, work here. I'm very fortunate to live here and work here. And I actually live in an interesting part of town. I live in the north part of Dallas. And I think what's very convenient about where I live is that I'm in between the two major airports. We got Love Field and we also have DFW International and literally I'm 20 minutes from each airport. So because I travel a lot, literally, like I'm just it's nothing for me.

[Aaron] That's beautiful. That's good. Tallahassee. Tallahassee has its little airport, but it's almost equidistant. Two hours between Panama and Jacksonville for an affordable flight. But that's all a little bit different. I'm actually even though I am raised primarily in Florida, I've lived in a handful of other states and I was actually born in Texas in Plano, which is a suburb of Austin. But I lived there for six months when I was born. So I can't say that I'm really a Texan necessarily. But anyhow, how would you describe yourself as a composer and as an artist?

[Quinn] Well, I mean, I've now been doing my art for almost several decades. I started fairly young and I've had plenty of I count that as plenty of time to work on the craft of composition and to get to the meaning of why I do it and which has changed over the years. And now I found myself I find myself thinking of music primarily as a means of communication, of human communication, because, you know, at the end of the day, music is a language, like it is a language we can communicate things with. And I find that this language has the power to thrill, has the power to heal, has the power to inspire and things like that. And so primarily, I write my music based off of my own life experiences. But I find that different audiences in different capacities can find some way to connect to it and hear themselves in it without having, you know, knowing who I am or having met me personally. And it's always a very gratifying thing to receive messages from people who I don't know, who have heard my music and go, you know, I definitely connected with that somehow. And, you know, I guess as an artist, I'm primarily focused on the awesome power of communication that it has and finding some way to give that gift of, I guess, human experience and human sharing. It was something that my teacher, David Maslanka, calls sharing music soul to soul. And, you know, when he said that, first of all, he was a very spiritual person. So it kind of resonated on that front. But it also, I mean, I've never really thought about it before then. And it just kind of changed everything.

[Aaron] Yeah, that's beautiful. And I really like how you approach that. That's something that maybe this is strange to yourself or others, but something I try to capture in my music theory research or what I do. If I find a phenomenon or create a system of whatever, I always try to relate it to the artist, the feeling, what it expresses or something like that. So I can really appreciate that. And, you know, so in our preliminary meeting, as people who regularly listen to this show probably know, I generally meet with everybody for a little bit to get to know each other before coming on the show. You know, you briefly discussed that you are essentially a full-time freelance composer and by many accounts, very successful with that. Now, I'm in my second year of graduate study in music theory at a pretty a fairly big university surrounded by a lot of colleagues, a lot of composition colleagues who what you're doing right now is like the dream. That's the goal. You know, a lot of people want to be a composition professor for various different reasons. Some just as a way to support their art and some because they really want to teach. But I know there's a fair portion of people who really, you know, they want to just create their arts and have it performed and be out there and so on. And so what you're doing is very desirable and miraculous for many. And I just wanted to take the time to give you the platform and ask the question, you know, to the people who aspire to do what you do, what are the things that I mean, what you said, you're 28, 29, you know, that's pretty darn young to be doing what you're doing with how successful you are relative to like everything. So what are some things that you can tell people about the steps, the initiatives, the things that you focused on and strived with to reach where you are?

[Quinn] Well, so it's worth noting that where I am in my career was a complete accident. Like whenever you can ask any musician when they set out, they, you know, you set out on some goals, you have a vision and you end up doing things that are, end up doing something that is completely different than what you imagined. And so, you know, where I am right now, I definitely did not imagine this, could not have imagined this. It just kind of happened by accident. And it all happened, I guess, in a sense by not being afraid to put myself out there, you know, entering all sorts of different contests, getting out there, meeting people, making the connections, you know, and a lot of people say that the music industry is about who you know, and then who you've worked with. And to an extent, that's true, you know, like, especially if there's a lot, it's such a small industry that there are different, there are different avenues for connections. I have a great friend and champion of my music, his name, Jerry Junkin, we all know that name. I got to, I first got connected with Jerry when I was composer in residence of a radio station in Austin. And as part of this residency, the radio station was like, you know, we want you to write a final piece for large ensemble that we can distribute on the radio. And, you know, you can write for anything you want. And they were implying that they wanted me to work with the Austin Symphony. But, you know, I remember when I was on the phone call, I didn't even let the dude finish the sentence. And I was like, I want to work with Jerry Junkin and UT. And so I ended up writing, doing two things with Jerry. He liked it so much, he took it to the Dallas Winds. And, you know, Jerry Junkin is a big name in the wind band world. So many people saw that. And so basically, yeah, I saw the avenue. I took the route. And, you know, if you have a connection to someone like that, you know, you find a pathway to get to them. And then, you know, another reason for that is, it goes back to the human connection thing. I like to, you know, most of these collaborators like Jerry, and like when I was at the Tallahassee Symphony, the conductor, Conor Gray Covington, who was music director, finalist, who introduced my work to the Tallahassee Symphony. He is also a friend. And it's mostly about getting to know these people as people, while you're getting to know them as artists. And so, you know, if you don't, if you know, you want them to do your music, but you don't really get along with them as a person, you're not going to work well together. And you're both going to be very unsatisfied with the collaboration. So it's all about getting to know people cordially first, and then, you know, setting the stage for collaboration right there. Because ideally, you'll want to collaborate many times down the line. And then, you know, wherever this person goes, they'll think of you, they'll take you, things like that. So but it's, I guess, you know, it's, it's kind of a, it's an interesting existence, I live, you know, I, on one hand, you know, I definitely have the freedom to fulfill these commissions on my own time, and I'm not really attached to anything or anyone. But on the other hand, I'm not attached to anything or anyone. So that means that, you know, I don't know where the next commission is coming from, you know, I can't just go out and ask for one, I have to hope that someone, you know, reaches out and is interested in collaborating. Now, I'm very fortunate in the sense that this happens, these happen years in advance.

[Aaron] I imagine that's quite stressful, though, on a day to day, sometimes, or was. Or it was.

[Quinn] Yeah, it was, especially, you know, if, you know, you don't have anything right now, and you're just kind of like hoping that something happens. That can be stressful. Or, you know, if you're you have these looming deadlines, and then you have multiple deadlines, that can also be stressful. So yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's not all candy land.

[Aaron] And, you know, one thing I want to, that I find interesting, because, you know, I come from academia, and that's where I want to find my career. And a lot of the people that I interview here on, uh, are as well by the people, you know, it's the system that I'm in, it's the people that I talk to mostly, I want to bring attention to how you didn't bring up necessarily universities, academic systems, or something like that. And was that a struggle for you? Or did that really not factor in because, you know, university can be very much a good old boys club in various different ways, but especially with connections.

[Quinn] Yeah, um, my whole university experience is interesting. It's not typical. Um, it's it's worth noting that I started my career as a professional composer when I was still a senior in high school. Um, that's when I started that I won a really huge contest that year, which pretty much launched me and led to things, let the things. And, you know, when I got to college that next year, uh, I was, you know, fulfilling commissions and I was traveling for performances. So it was very hard to do schooling while at the same time doing a career. So I had to kind of, that's why I did TCU for you or the TCU for a year to work with a certain teacher really discovered it wasn't the place for me. And then finished up at SMU as a non-degree student. Uh, I'm very fortunate that, you know, even though I spent so little time at these places that I still have a great connection with them. Like I still work with the TCU band and work with the TCU band in a couple of months and SMU, I still have lots of colleagues at SMU and I'm working with the SMU band also in another couple of months. You know, like I don't, you know, I'm not really quote unquote affiliated with these places. I don't have any degrees from them, but you know, it's still, I guess it was all about cultivating the connection there, but it was like, you know, even if you're in an academic set setting, you know, these people who you meet people who will eventually become your colleagues and maybe you'll end up working with them and things like that. And you know, part of my job, I travel a lot, but I also do a lot of residencies at university. So I get to see what this is like. And I do notice that, you know, it's different from when I was in school, which was almost 10 years ago, I guess the style of teaching music composition and in teaching in general has changed to what now people, you know, we write a whole variety of music. Everybody writes a whole variety of music and that's encouraged, you know, and I did come up through some systems where it was like, you know, you have to write like this and things like that. And that actually still exists in some major organizations.

[Aaron] I can see from the look on your face, you have some more to say, but maybe not publicly about that.

[Quinn] I mean, it's like conservatories in the North Eastern United States, not necessarily on the West Coast, but like North Eastern United States, major name conservatories still kind of have that school of composition. I don't know. Well, actually I do know, but I can't say much.

[Aaron] Yeah, no, I understand. It's in a different, in a, you know, context different. The same can be said for music theory with certain more conservatory style schools, but you know, it depends on the place, the person, but yeah, certainly, certainly. Thank you for sharing that. And so let's get onto the piece of music that we're featuring today alongside yourself, which is titled A Joyous Trilogy. So we'll get into the technical soon, but can you tell us a bit about this piece, how it came to be?

[Quinn] Yeah, that piece is now five years old. It was commissioned by what was then the orchestra of Seattle in Seattle, Washington. Now it's the harmonium orchestra. My friend and mentor, William White is music director of that orchestra. And I believe it was his third season in the 2019, 2020 season, but for that orchestra, it was their 50th anniversary. So it was a very celebratory occasion and my mentor commissioned this piece for that occasion. The concert was February 15^th of 2020, about a week before everything in Seattle shut down.

[Aaron] I was going to say the, you know, when you said 2019, 2020 season, I'm sure it didn't end the way that they wanted necessarily.

[Quinn] No, they had to like move some stuff to like two seasons after like their season finale. I remember they were going to do the Daphnis and Chloe of Ravel and they did that like two seasons ago, but they were supposed to do it in May of 2020. Of course they didn't. But yeah, right after that time, it was actually their last concert for like a season back in February. And then, yeah, no, it was, I remember that week. It was a very tense week because of everything that was developing and the program was interesting too. So it was my piece, which I conducted. It was the Mozart clarinet concerto with the principal of Seattle Symphony playing and then the right of spring of Stravinsky. I mean, huge orchestra, huge crowd. I remember that was a packed house. The video is actually still on YouTube of the premiere. I don't conduct like that anymore. So watch at your own risk. But yeah, no, it was basically a piece commissioned for a celebratory occasion. It's dedicated to my mentor as well.

[Aaron] Beautiful, beautiful. Almost ironic, A Joyous Trilogy premiered at a relatively dark time necessarily. But so the recording that you sent me was labeled “for the Kansas City Symphony”. Was it also performed by them?

[Quinn] Yeah, they performed it in October of ‘23. They did three performances of it.

[Aaron] Oh geez, how did you land that? That's impressive.

[Quinn] That, from what I heard, the conductor, Michael Stern, had been looking at that piece for a while. I don't know how he found it. I guess somebody like sent it to him or something like that. Or maybe he like, I don't know how he found it. But that was his last season at the Kansas City Symphony. So he performed it there and then he subsequently took it to his orchestra in Connecticut, Orchestra Lumos. And Michael Stern is another person I have a great working relationship with as well as personal relationship. But yeah, no, he found it somehow. He programmed it.

[Aaron] Shit. That's...

[Quinn] I don't know how these things work.

[Aaron] No, it's great. Well, I mean, your music in many ways speaks to its own quality and then you yourself do as well. So, you know, orchestra music. I am a violinist, so I'm a huge fan of orchestra music. You really got me. You took my heart with this one. I love a good orchestral score. All the different ways that it can be orchestrated. I'm not saying it's the best ensemble or instrumentation. It just has a special place for me. And, you know, how do you personally approach writing for orchestra? Or really, I mean, any large ensemble, it could be concert band, which in somewhat, in my opinion, is even more hairy, but I'm also not a band person. But, you know, do you do a piano reduction, score reduction, choir by choir, you start at the end? I don't know. How do you approach writing for a really big ensemble?

[Quinn] Well, so I have this weird thing where I can kind of have this tunnel vision if I'm looking at an orchestral score where I can focus in intimately on details and just kind of take it apart and see how it fits together, which benefits me a lot when I conduct because I can easily look at full scores, like, and I can sometimes sight read them. But when I'm writing for orchestra, I mostly look at the big picture about how things fit together and I kind of see what it looks like and I can replicate it that way. And I've done that when it comes to the band as well, which is a whole different type of writing, but it's not too different than writing for orchestra. You just got to remember that people have to breathe. You know, everybody is there. Almost everybody there is using wind. Nobody's really bowing anything. So different approach. Different approach. But I guess for me personally, similar composition approach. But when it comes to the orchestra. I mean, like I've spent so long around it. Like I spent I have mentors that were orchestra musicians and I've been watching symphony orchestra since I was about 10. So I know the orchestra very intimately and I know the instruments very intimately and I know the personalities and I'm just able to just make it make it work. I don't know how.

[Aaron] So I already made a joke about the irony of the premiere with the title, A Joyous Trilogy. But can you tell us a bit about the title and maybe the meaning of the piece? Was it because of the supposed to be celebratory nature of the 50th anniversary with symphony of Seattle?

[Quinn] Something like that. That's something to do with that. Really, A Joyous Trilogy is a piece that I believe it's the third life for it because there were two pieces before it that are kind of drafts. So the very first draft of that piece was written when I was at TCU. I wrote a piece called Passages of Joy, which is essentially the first movement of A Joyous Trilogy. And I ended up rewriting that and kind of expanding it because it just kind of the way that piece ended, it was like there's left more to be desired. So when I saw an opportunity to expand on that, I decided to use this commission to do that. And that piece actually Passages of Joy was the very first time I had a piece played by a professional orchestra. That piece was premiered in January of 2019 by the South Bend Symphony Orchestra under Alastair Willis, also another good friend. And so I said third life. So there was a piece I wrote when I was a student at Brevard Music Center. I'm actually wearing the shirt right now. In the summer of 2018, I wrote a piece that had a very long title because I'm terrible with titles. So I had everybody in the studio pick a word and then I just arranged those words. Anyways, I ended up taking the second half of that piece or maybe more rather the last minute of that piece and kind of putting it onto the end of A Joyous Trilogy. So here I had a sandwich, but I really didn't have the meat, if that makes sense. I have the two slices of bread, but I didn't really have the meat. And so that's when I decided to write the second movement, which is the one with the trombone solo. And then there I had the piece. And then that first half of the Brevard piece, I guess the first seven minutes of it, I ended up rewriting it, reworking into a new piece for Speaking of Plano, the Plano Symphony.

[Aaron] Cool. Cool. So A Joyous Trilogy is, as you said, an amalgamation of some things and it is a trilogy. It is in three movements, but it is a seamless piece. It does not stop, but you have marked and if you're listening at least semi-carefully, you can tell when the mood does change after a conclusion of ideas. And so why the decision to have seamless movements instead of system cuts?

[Quinn] Well, I mean, it just felt like a piece that was going to be continuous rather than have these pauses in it. Like it felt like a story and it felt like a seamless story. So I decided to make it a Taka and make it kind of symphonic suite of three movements that were just continuous.

[Aaron] Certainly, certainly to keep the energy going that makes sense. And so let's get on to the movements that are here. Let's first talk about movement one, which is titled Running. This certainly exudes the name in terms of the textural energy in many different ways. Can you talk a bit about what you were going for with this movement?

[Quinn] Yeah, definitely. So as the title implies, it's a movement that has nonstop energy, like from the rip. I mean, we're just pretty much we're in and we're often running. And I guess the underlying kind of energy comes from the running eighth notes that happen almost constantly throughout the piece. Even during the lyrical stuff, there's always this forward motion that propels it. That's a very unique movement because it has almost its own form. It's a very definite form that kind of has all these different mood changes and things like that. So it's almost like a little symphony, but also in one, one seven minutes movement, which was completely an accident because I guess that came from the original iteration of the piece, The Passages of Joy, which is designed just to be a concert opener that was seven minutes long. So I followed that form there, but it ended up working for that. I mean, I ended up still staying under seven minutes and it's funny that whenever that piece is excerpted, like whenever some people don't want to play the full A Joyous Trilogy, they always end up playing just the first movement. So it's like almost the The Passages of Joy gets resurrected once in a while, completely an accident.

[Aaron] Well, it's quite an exciting movement. And I was really wondering, maybe this is why it gets plucked as its own thing, as in many ways, I think the formal plan of it exudes in some way, I guess, if you allied the ending a bit, almost a completion because the form seems, you know, you have lots of different changes, metrically, stylistically within the movement. And I get a sense of a sonata form-esque or maybe a large form compound binary, which that's, you know, same difference, whatever. Point being is, what were you thinking about the formal plan of this movement? It is the biggest one out of the three.

[Quinn] It definitely has a wavelike shape, like it begins. You know, there's this exposition, there's a little bit of development, but then it goes into something completely different. But then I find a way to kind of take that earlier material and develop it. You know, it comes back in compound meter, then it kind of builds its way back up with a lyrical theme. And then it comes back to a recapitulation. And from there, I guess it goes into some sort of coda, which is reminiscent of the beginning. So it definitely feels like I used a form to where, you know, most of the musical material is connected so that it sounds familiar. And then by then everything is linked. So it, like I said, it feels like a miniature symphony in one movement. And it's definitely a journey you're going off.

[Aaron] Sure. Certainly a journey. And I really love how you bleed into the second movement with the held notes. It's completely natural. Again, probably why you did it a taka. And so let's talk about that second movement Reflection, which this movement is as a lot of three movement pieces or multi-movement pieces. The second one contrasts the fast energetic first one and Reflection is, oh man, I really love it. Especially that solo trombone line. Absolutely beautiful. It brings me back to, you know, some of the, some dense orchestral late romantic, neo-romantic writing. I'm thinking not calling Mahler neo-romantic, but just something so emotional in a slow texture. And can you talk a bit about Reflection?

[Quinn] Yeah. So I knew that if you were going to have a symphonic suite and three movements, you got to have a moment where you can breathe. And so I decided to make that second movement Reflection a moment where the audience can contemplate and kind of utilize some of the musical material that's familiar from the first movement, get us ready for the third movement, which is another kind of boundless energy type of movement. But in the decision to use the solo trombone as a voice, you know, I thought about that for a while. Like I really thought about what instrument in the orchestra doesn't get a lot of time to shine or gets a solo voice or any, you know, just a chance to be lyrical. And I thought that instantly thought of the trombone. The horn would have been good too, but like the horn gets a lot of beautiful stuff and you know, woodwinds, they kind of dialogue with the trombones. I wasn't going to utilize any of it, but I believe the trombone was a very unique choice. It has this very singing quality that's almost like a human voice. You know, that piece, whenever it gets done and you can see this in some videos on YouTube, it's become kind of an unspoken tradition to have the trombone stand up and play that solo. Sometimes it depends, like some trombonists, can you believe it? Some trombonists are shy and don't want to stand up. This was,

[Aaron] Can you believe it?

[Quinn] So this was it. This is interesting. We did this piece at the Sun Valley Music Festival back in August of 24. Alastair Neal conducted and the Sun Valley Orchestra is made up of some of the best orchestral players in the country. The trombonist on that occasion is a man, his name is Gordon Wolf. He's principal trombone of the Toronto Symphony Orchestra. He did not want to stand up for some strange reason. I asked the maestro, I was like, you know, could you have him stand up? And I said, I can ask him, but I don't know if he'll do it. So I had to physically go back there and be like, do it for me, please. And then he did it. So believe it or not, yes, there are some brass players that are shy and will not stand up. You know, and then of course there's union rules, which I've thankfully never encountered because I don't care. Honestly, I'm just going to have you stand up anyways. I mean, it's my piece. I wrote it. So why not? Yeah, no, it's quite interesting. That was another experiment. I wanted to see what would happen with that. And it actually, it works well, I think.

[Aaron] It does. Now that you say it, it does. When I say natural, almost expected that that would be a horn part, but you're right that the trombone adds a different quality to that. I'm quite a fan of the trombone, although I'm a violinist. My grandfather played trombone in church quite a lot for many years. And a couple of years ago, he gifted me his very nice trumpet from the fifties or whenever it was made, I'm pretty sure around then. And I took a semester of trombone lessons, which in college, which was interesting as a string player, certainly a world that is intimidating to me, but absolutely beautiful solo and the movement as a whole and moving on. So movement three titled Renewal, just like a lot of three movement pieces and as felt naturally in this piece, it is a renewal of the energy from the beginning, uh, literally figuratively, and it starts off a little bit slow, but it teams back to life pretty quickly. As there was energy in the first movement with you got all these running notes, you got these textures, you know, basically falling on top of each other in some ways. And can you talk a bit about the final movement Renewal?

[Quinn] Yeah. So in the fast movement, you know, I kind of wanted to do what I did at the very beginning of the piece. You know, the piece kind of starts from nothing and then it just builds up these textures kind of stack on top of each other and then kind of just eventually explodes. But here I wanted to see what would happen if I did like a slow burn. So you notice that like, I guess for the first minute or so of the piece, it's a very subdued, like it wants to explode, but it keeps holding itself back rather than just like, you know, just going for it. And then eventually it does. But a lot of it, that's another, you know, kind of experiments in texture and just seeing what kind of sounds that the brighter part of your extra can make. So you got Cortales in the piece, you got the high winds, you got a lot of strings doing the tremolo thing, but it's all like sort of build upon something and then kind of just like build towards something without giving it away too quickly.

[Aaron] Sure. And you know, one thing I found remarkable about this movement is you're talking about managing the different textures, managing the different lines. And it feels like once the energy is fully back in the texture or back to the level that it was in the first movement, it is quite overwhelming in many different ways. It's like layers stacking on top of each other, continuously getting to a higher and higher point, especially love in your outro or the last part of the movement, when you have all those slides from pianissimo to fortissimo going back and forth. And in headphones, the panning back and forth in the left and right ears is really cool too. And I bet I'm sure it was even better in the concert halls. But how do you, this is kind of a orchestrational question. You know, you talked earlier about how you approach large pieces. So when you're in a large piece such as this, how do you juggle so much? Because, you know, one of the trickiest things about writing for a large ensemble, especially once with so many varied textures, like the orchestra, is when you're going to have all the instruments play. So how do you manage that without it sounding like a big wall of, well, nothing and instead making it something?

[Quinn] Yeah, that goes back to thinking that the orchestra is like a set of different personalities. All the instruments is a set of different personalities. And, you know, at some point you want these personalities to shine through and you want them to kind of sound together. I mean, that's kind of what the meaning of the word orchestra. But at the same time, I mean, each of them have these own individual voices and they're different families that blend together. So like, you know, sometimes you just want to hear what the woodwinds can do or what the brass can do best and how they work well with each other. Sometimes how they work well on their own. Sometimes you want to blend them. You want to see how the woodwinds would work with the brass and things like that. And it's utilizing the different playing techniques, the different personalities, the different ranges, the different tones in order to create a product that is interesting for the listener, but also poses a challenge for the musician as well, because they're like, okay, I'm playing along with a muted trumpet. How do I kind of work my sound in with that or something along those lines? And so that's one of the many reasons I actually refer to this piece as a mini concerto for orchestra, because there's so much variety in how I choose to utilize the different sounds in the orchestra that it's kind of myself putting my orchestration knowledge to test seeing what would happen if I did this or when this happens. And yeah, so far the results have been interesting. I found that whenever an orchestra plays this, it doesn't matter who it is, doesn't matter if it's the Kansas City Symphony, doesn't matter if it's who recently played this. I think the last person who played this was probably Tallahassee in September. But I've also, you know, it was interesting about this piece. I think you were going to get to it, but I transcribed this for Wind Ensemble and it works, I guess, equally as well. Like, you know, like some of the string stuff translates to the woodwinds quite nicely. Speaking of Jerry Junkin, I made this for his band at UT, which is like a Rolls Royce. Like that band can do anything. And yeah, it's one of those pieces that just works whatever you do with it. I've never heard, actually, no, I have heard it on piano. It doesn't quite work.

[Aaron] Interesting, interesting. And, you know, all wonderful and great things. Plenty more to talk about even just with this piece. But with the podcast, we do have to move on. But is there anything else that you do want to say about any of the performances, the movements, anything with A Joyous Trilogy?

[Quinn] No, it's just one of those pieces where, you know, like it was more successful than I thought it was going to be. Like, you know, you as a composer, you write these things and then you put them out there and, you know, you hope they do well. It's like, I know this is a cliche, but, you know, it's a bit like raising the child and setting it out into the world and hoping it does right and represents you well. I believe this piece represents myself well. I mean, this, you know, that piece was written and premiered five years ago and there's still performances lined up for this year. Like it's, it's doing better than I thought than anybody thought.

[Aaron] Certainly. Maybe just not on piano. Yeah.

[Quinn] Not anytime soon. Yes.

[Aaron] Well, anyways, I congratulate you on that very wide success for this piece. And so we're coming to the third part of this podcast. And so we'll start it with, I'll ask you this beautifully broad question. You've already answered it a bit earlier, but I always like to ask everybody this, what does music mean to you?

[Quinn] Well, I mean, I believe music is a very beautiful way of, a beautiful means of communicating different feelings, how you're feeling at the moment, different life experiences, different, um, the different stories and things like that. Um, I think the beauty of it is that good music stands the test of time and, uh, and still communicates to, to us decades after they were written millennia after they were written, you know, I listened to the fifth symphony of Beethoven written in 1808 and I still just cannot believe that you think about how long ago that was written like 1808. We can't even fathom what things might have been out, but we still been like back then, but we still have that piece of music that still speaks to us to stay. And you know, you listen to it, you knew exactly what Beethoven was trying to say with it. And it just like, it just stands the test of time. We still have, I mean, like literally that man sat down, wrote that from his mind and we still have it and can listen to it. I, that's, I just can't believe that another piece like that, which is absolutely unbelievable. It's the Rite of Spring of Stravinsky 1913. Another piece that just doesn't age. Like it sounds like it was written yesterday, like, but it was, it's over a hundred years old and it's just like some guy, right, wrote that from, he sat down and out of nothing, literally a piano. And I think, you know, I think, you know, it's just a beautiful thing. Like it's, it's very much a human thing, very much so. And I don't think anything can replace that. No, no AI, no nothing. That's a whole other discussion.

[Aaron] Oh man. I, oh, well, this whole part of AI. Yeah. I know I, man, I find discussions of AI annoying. I, I, what I mean by that is not criticisms of it necessarily, but people obsessed with it. I just,

[Quinn] Oh yeah. Some people are like, they're just like, they think it's going to like, they're scared of it. Some people just legit scared of it. And I say this, look, if AI can't complete Schubert's unfinished symphony or Beethoven's 10th symphony, it can't write music that, no, no. So we don't have to get into that, but it's like, no, come on. Come on. Yeah. I just, it can't even get fingers right.

[Aaron] Certainly, certainly can get a Coca-Cola commercial pretty close, but not, not even, oh yeah, not even. Um, now that whole conversation is I under, I understand people being fearful of it, but man, the people who pedal AI so much, oh man, it's the, it's the, it's everything with about the future, whatever. Yeah. That's just annoying to me. Entirely different conversation though. We'll pivot away from that. I, you know, so now I like to talk about, you know, our fields and you're someone who does not, who did not find their keep primarily through academic composing, but through your talents, through your connections and through your efforts, you found just as much colleague in that as anything else. And you know, we talked about before on this program that, you know, you, uh, you came to Florida State not too long ago to do a workshop. You've done many residencies and so you're, you're quite successful with what you do and what you do is very admirable. What are some of the things that you see, whether you like or don't like some of the attitudes. Oh, we talked about this a little bit earlier, but let's get a little bit more specific if you feel comfortable, of course, just some academic things in composition that you're like, Oh, when you're visiting somewhere like, huh, that's an interesting way to look at this. Or what do you see when you go do these things?

[Quinn] I do meet a lot of students that are genuinely curious about what they can create with the tools they are given. And like I said, we were very fortunate to live in a time where, uh, there is no style restriction on the type of music you can write. There's all, all sorts of great new music being written by all sorts of people. And it's like perfectly acceptable. There is no one school of composition. I'm finding that it's being encouraged in these places. A lot of the composition professors are, uh, encouraging their students to be more individualistic. You know, they're not trying to make carbon copies of themselves. Uh, and I've been, you know, I've been to Florida State and the students there showed me some really strong compositions. I was very impressed by what I heard there. Uh, shout out to the electric violin concerto,

[Aaron] which it's, it's so funny that of a coincidence that that was the last episode actually. So yeah, shout out.

[Quinn] Oh really?

[Aaron] Yeah. That was the most pre, um, uh, at this point will be two weeks ago. Yeah. That was the last episode. So it's funny. That's paired with that. But anyways, go on.

[Quinn] Absolutely. Yeah, no, that was a really cool piece, but, um, even some of like the younger students I've worked with, some high schoolers I've worked with, um, who are interested in music composition, you know, they sometimes ask me this question. I'm just like, look, you know, you, you have the tools, you have the power for com communication. You're free to write whatever you want. You, as long as you communicate something that is genuine to you, it will find an audience and it will speak to that audience. I always express the, the, the power and the importance of being yourself, um, in your composition. And it takes a while. It takes a while to learn how to be yourself in music because, you know, you're surrounded by all these influences and you want to try everything. And then, you know, it's almost like reaching in people's toolboxes and trying out their tools. Eventually you'll find a tool you'll like and you'll keep that tool and you'll learn how to use it to where it works for you. Um, that that's basically what, you know, music composition is. I like to say it's like being in the laboratory, you know, you're pouring and mixing all these different chemicals and some things will explode, but nothing will kill you unless you want it to. Um, just be careful about what you mix, but you know, you're mixing all these chemicals and you know, you're finding all these different formulas and things like that. You know, I think the shape of music composition nowadays is in very good shape. I'm very excited to see the things that my colleagues are creating and I just, I love to see it. I really do.

[Aaron] Certainly. And so let's say hypothetically in the future, professor Quinn Mason, if, uh, what is something that you would want more of or to implement in a hypothetical program that you think that students should have more of?

[Quinn] Absolutely. And it's absolutely essential to work with performers that if I were to create a course, that would be a requirement. And because it, at the end of the day, you know, especially if you're writing for other people, other than yourself, you know, the MIDI is just not going to cut it. Like Kevin puts says, he says, don't fall in love with the MIDI and he's absolutely right. You have to learn how to work with other people, but you also have to learn how to, you know, work with them, write for them and things like that. And write for them and things like that. Uh, how to collaborate the power of collaboration, being a good collaborator. Uh, cause that's how you get, uh, these meaningful kind of performances and these meaningful music, musical experiences is learning how to be a good collaborator. And you know, like, and people like working with you, they're going to work, want to work with you again and again, create opportunities for you and things like that. It's absolutely essential to learn how to work with live musicians and then, you know, start small, you know, working with the chamber music, maybe a couple of instruments here, maybe a quartet trio, work your way up chamber orchestra and then being eclectic as possible, learning how to write for a symphony orchestra and learning how to work with the symphony orchestra. Symphony orchestra is a large group of people, like you cannot waste their time. And that's a, that's a good way to not get invited back. Whereas with the concert band, I find I'm always surprised when I go work with a band because it's more, it's less rule heavy, you know, like, uh, it's, you get more time to rehearse your music. Whereas with the orchestra, you'll lucky, you'll be lucky if you even get to talk to the orchestra. I've been in situations like that. Um, so learning how to work with these different ensembles and not making rookie mistakes that, you know, people won't forget, you know, they won't forget that.

[Aaron] That's a great advice. I love that idea of a graduate course, hell, maybe even undergrad working with performers because certainly the art of collaboration, you know, it's not even that people don't mean well, it's just, you know, if you're on, if you're inexperienced, you want to, you know, you gotta, you gotta learn some way. Uh, but, uh, certainly good and not to bring down the conversation, but let's talk about music theory. How about that? Um, what I'm assuming it's in some way a tool for you with what you do. It is for most musicians, I would hope. Uh, but what are your perspectives on that music theory and composition?

[Quinn] Certainly helps. I believe it goes hand in hand. And earlier on in my training, I have a solid grounding in music theory. Um, actually work with a couple of teachers that had me, excuse me, do things like at the very beginning of each lesson, we would analyze Bach corrals. We would go line by line soprano, alto, tenor, bass. We would see how those lines moved. Then we would see how the alto line moved. Then we would see how they fit together and we would sing each line. Now I was a terrible singer, but they made me sing anyways. And it helped. Um, I must give a, you know, an acknowledgement to my teacher, Robert Xavier Rodriguez, um, a renowned composer here in the DFW area, who was one of, was one of the students of Nadia Boulanger, you know, the famous, I guess, theorist teacher. Um, and she had a, you know, a very specialized way of teaching her students. And I guess he, he worked with her for a while. And so he never forgot that. And that's how, that's exactly how he taught me. It was a bit overwhelming because I was about 16 when I worked with him. And I had never been through such a rigorous training in my life, but I adapted quite easily. And now whenever I go to write, there's a lot of, uh, focus on, I guess, the finer details about how the different instrumental lines fit together, which is why I'm able to, I guess why I'm able to write this orchestral music that is, um, interesting, not only sonically, but contrapuntally as well, because of the emphasis on how the different musical lines interact with each other. The whole thing is a conversation and how, you know, if you have these conversations with these, these two people talk over each other, you can't really understand what they're saying, but they compliment each other quite nicely. And even if they're talking at the same time, you know, if you could follow the flow of the conversation and they kind of, you know, seeing things like that, that's how I think of the theory in practice when it comes to writing for a large ensemble. Uh, so it is definitely still an extremely important part of, uh, my compositional process.

[Aaron] I'm glad to hear it keeps me in a job in some way. Uh, but, uh, yeah, certainly, certainly, uh, always a conversation piece, obviously the name of this show Theorist Composer Collaboration. This is certainly from an academic lens. Most things I say are, you know, music theory in a lot of ways, the practice of it certainly helpful for composers as, as you've just said in the way that it is for you. It seems as though sometimes music theory as a field can be divorced from what's happening in composition. Now, uh, what you were just saying with, you know, uh, learning the fundamentals aurally and literally of counterpoint with finding the different voices and how they go together in a Bach corral. It's a beautiful way in a composition lesson. That's not something I've heard of before in that context necessarily. And it's really cool. But, and I also want to say when it comes to music theory and composition coming together, actually a highlight, I would say, uh, to give some credence to the music theory community at the most recent society for music theory conference in Jacksonville, our national big national conference, there was actually a composer theorist concert where new music, uh, I believe most of them were premiers, uh, by society for music theory members. Uh, there was a new music concert there, which I thought was wonderful. And there were short, uh, they weren't all necessary theory presentations, but short little glimpses into the construction of the pieces by the composer at the beginning. And then they were performed live, which I thought was a beautiful thing. And they're hopefully going to have, that was the first year this is, uh, the past one was the first year where that happened. And, uh, they, they hope to do that reoccurring every year, which I think is really cool. But how can you see better? Because I agree music theory is nothing without composition. And to some degree you need composition or you need music theory for composition. How can you better see the two fields intertwining?

[Quinn] Well, with things like that, you know, the whole bringing together of minds that think about the theory behind what it means to write music and then putting it in the practice. So that, that whole situation, the whole conference thing, and then the whole, like bringing it together with a new music concert is actually a really brilliant idea because, and then doing presentations before each piece to show how each piece is constructed, I guess in a way would heighten the experience of listening to the piece, because then it almost feels like you're there while the piece is being created in real time. And that's a lot of things that some, some orchestras do that with older pieces where they give these presentations, they go behind the composition process and they'll throw some theory in there too. And then they'll play the piece and then it gives a really new perspective on how, what the piece is and how it was created. And it almost, you know, gives it a very intimate feel like, like you were there as say, Berlioz was writing his Symphony Fantastique. That situation you just mentioned at the conference is similar, I believe, where it takes the listener behind the scenes and makes them feel a part of the composition process. If we can have more of that, you know, if we can have more of the composer being more interactive, more open to sharing the secrets behind, you know, basically demystifying the process. I think it will heighten the listening experience for a lot of listeners who aren't necessarily familiar with new music and, you know, make them less afraid of it. There's still a fear of new music, believe it or not. There's a fear from audiences, from promoters, from artistic administrators. And this is, it's not so much a problem in the band world. The band world loves new music. The orchestral world needs to catch up. I'm saying that there's someone who makes my living in that field. They need, they have a lot of work to do when it comes to making new music accessible for audiences. I'm not even talking about the type of new music. I'm talking about how they go to promote it to their audience. If you have a concert of Jennifer Higdon and then you have a Beethoven piano concerto, you know, and then you have, say the centerpiece is the Petrushka Stravinsky. Oh no, that's adventurous. That's adventurous. Let me go... Broms. Broms. Thank you. Broms Symphony No. 1. Yeah, probably. Yeah. You don't call the piece, you don't call the concert Beethoven and Broms. Forget the Higdon. Because people are going to show up and it's like they get blindsided with the Higdon and they're like, but wait, I didn't, I came to hear Beethoven and Broms. You know, some orchestras are way better at that than others. I have a personal experience with this song. God, I was with an orchestra in Texas in the Panhandle about two years ago, three years ago now, and they were playing A Joyous Trilogy. And then they played the Mozart exultata, the ubilante with the soprano. And then they played the Broms Second Symphony. You know what they call that concert? They call it Mozart, Broms and more. Yes, I was offended. Oh man.

[Aaron] Yeah, I would be too. You were the more.

[Quinn] It's funny because like I was there at the concerts and a lot of people came up to I liked the Broms. I didn't even know you were going to be on this concert. Of course not.

[Aaron] Yeah, I, uh, man, I pro I would feel offended too. Uh, and it's funny bringing up Will from before we were talking in that episode, he's, Will made a comment, uh, the best place to get a premiere is to have a piece at the beginning of a concert titled something completely different. Like what you were just saying, man, Broms, Mozart and more. That is, that is wonderful. Uh, I'm sorry.

[Quinn] Yeah. I mean, I thought it was weird at first, but then, you know, like I said, even I was mentioning Jennifer Higlin, this actually happened to her. Like there was an orchestra playing her piece and they, they advertised it to, you know, standard pieces of the program, but then advertise her and she, she has Grammy, she got Grammy, she has a Pulitzer. So if it can happen to her, it can happen to anybody.

[Aaron] Oh, I know. It's, it's, it's funny that Jennifer, it's like, uh, you know, for new music, you know, entry level, Caroline Shaw, Jennifer Higdon, it's not like, you know, some obscure composers or anything like that, but certainly. Well, thank you for sharing all that. I really do appreciate it. And, uh, we're coming to a close here and you know, you're a very busy guy in a number of ways, things planned out years ahead, large commissions, lots of different things. I just saw something on social media about the Chicago symphony, but I want, uh, with you, but I just want to ask what big projects do you have coming up?

[Quinn] Absolutely. You know, you mentioned Plano. Um, we both mentioned Plano. So in about two weeks, they're premiering a new composition of mine called Shine Time. Uh, it's a new concert opener and their premier get on the 18^th of this month. So that, um, that's coming up. And then another premiere that is coming up is, um, um, two string orchestra pieces, one for the Northwest Sinfonietta. That one's a co-commission between Oberlin, Indiana University, Stanford University, uh, University of Southern California and Ithaca, and one more college I forgot the name of. Um, that's premiering in March with the Northwest Sinfonietta. And then we're taking it to Oberlin. Then another piece for the Andover Orchestra in Massachusetts, actually the Phillips Academy and the woods is a boarding school. And interestingly enough, I think about three or four U S presidents attended school there. So there may be future US presidents in the orchestra. I don't know. Um, in March at the CB DNA conference, my symphony number six will be premiered by the TCU band under Bobby Francis. So continuing my relationship with TCU and then just a bunch of, actually there's one more, there's a bunch of performances that I'm traveling to in the meanwhile, but in June, um, the league of American orchestra's conference happens in Salt Lake City, Utah symphony is hosting. I have a great relationship with them. So I'm composing a new piece for the Utah youth symphony that will be on the opening session concert. I don't know what yet, but other than that, I mean, there's, um, a bunch of commissions that are happening a couple of seasons from now, one for the national symphony orchestra, my second for them. And then, uh, my fourth commission for the Dallas symphony orchestra is almost also happening in a future location, along with some future work, including something for the Chicago symphony. I can't say what yet.

[Aaron] Fair enough. Well, I'm really glad I snagged you this time of year because you've got you, you are up and down and across the board and many congratulations with that. And so what would be the best way for the audience to contact you with comments, questions, commission requests possibly?

[Quinn] Yeah, I have a website masonianmusic.com and then I have, it's everything is very elaborate there and easy to find. So there's a contact form and then, you know, I, it comes directly to me and then go to my management and I answer all my messages myself. So I'll, I'll see that and get back to you. Um, I also have an Instagram, uh, the, the handle is Quinn Mason composer. And on that Instagram is mostly people I met the places I go, you know, there's no shirtless picks on there and no thirst traps. That's not for nobody gets that. That's not for y'all. So, but yeah, it's, um, yeah, those are the primary, I have a Facebook too, but it's mostly kind of cross posts for my Instagram. Uh, plus some personal stuff.

[Aaron] So no thirst traps on Facebook either.

[Quinn] See, I got my teachers on there and my older role models. So no, I'm not absolutely not. I'm not posting my pecs. Okay. No, no.

[Aaron] Well, excellent. Excellent. And so, you know, it's, it's been a great time having you on. I really appreciate your perspectives and, but before we go, I always like to give guests one last opportunity. If you were to give a message to the audience about anything, music theory, composition, life, whatever you want to say, what would that be?

[Quinn] Trying to be trying to fit in and being others, being, getting along with, not getting along with others, but like being popular and trying to fit in and being, it's all overrated. I think, you know, it's, it's, it doesn't cost much. It doesn't cost anything to be yourself and just to be the genuine version of yourself. Um, because, you know, a lot of people can detect BS, but if you just, you know, let's just be yourself. Every being's trying to be other things is overrated, honestly.

[Aaron] Trying to be the other thing certainly is overrated and it usually doesn't work in the way that you want.

[Quinn] Certainly. It really doesn't. It doesn't make people want to work with you either.

[Aaron] Well, you know, this has been a great episode and a great conversation, A Joyous Trilogy by composer Quinn Mason. I really appreciate your time here, uh, bringing all of your experience and insights here. Thank you very much for coming on to the Theorist Composer Collaboration.

[Quinn] Thank you so much for the invite.

[Aaron] Hello, this is Aaron again, and I want to thank you for listening to this episode of the Theorist Composer Collaboration. I also want to give another big thank you to Quinn Mason for coming onto the podcast and for sharing his piece, A Joyous Trilogy. Quinn's contact info is listed in the description, and I would appreciate it if you could show them some support. For further updates and notifications on the Theorist Composer Collaboration make sure to follow our Instagram and Facebook pages. You can listen to future episodes through our host website, Spotify, Apple podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeart radio, and YouTube. So make sure you subscribe to the platform of your choosing. If you want to monetarily support the work of the TCC, you can click the link to our Buy Me a Coffee page. All donations are highly appreciated. All of the relevant links to follow, listen to, and support the show are in the description. TCC episodes are posted every other week on Mondays and don't miss our blog posts, which go live a few days before a new episode is added. Again, make sure to follow our social media accounts and relevant streaming platforms because you won't want to miss it. But until then, this is Aaron and thank you for joining the TCC.