TCC 35. Vigil - Emelia Ulrich

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Welcome to the Theorist -Composer Collaboration,

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a podcast interview series highlighting modern

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composers and music theorists. My name is Aaron

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DeZarilla, I'm the host of this podcast and also

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a music theorist myself. Today I will be talking

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with the composer Amelia Ulrich alongside her

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piece Vigil. I talk with Amelia about her background,

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philosophy in music, the piece Vigil, the place

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of music theory in composition, and much more.

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I also want to give a content warning for this

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episode, containing discussion of grief, loss,

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and terminal illness. So, with that, here is

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an excerpt from Vigil, and welcome to the Theorist

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-Composer Collaboration. Again, the music that

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you were just listening to is from the piece

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Vigil by the composer Emilia Ulrich. Speaking

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of which, Emilia, welcome to the podcast. How

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are you doing? Thank you. I am doing well. Preface,

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apologies for the hoarseness of my voice. I'm

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not sick, but my voice is a little bit husky

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right now. But I'm doing well. How about you?

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Good. I'm doing well. You know, this is graduation

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season and you still have one more year of your

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master's, which we'll get to in a second. But

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I just graduated this past weekend. So lots of

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exciting things going on with that. But how about

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you go ahead, tell the audience about yourself

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personally, professionally, academically, whatever

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you choose. So I am a current master's student

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in composition at FSU. Yeah, in composition.

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I am also a professional violinist and violist.

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I play with the Gaines Orchestra and the Ocala

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Symphony and gig around and stuff. Yeah, I am

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writing a lot of music right now. It's very fun.

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I am enjoying it. Now, Amelia and I knew each

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other at University of Florida. Of course, we

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know each other now, but we... first met at university

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of florida when i was doing my undergrad at the

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same time as her we were both in the violin studio

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amelia i've always wondered because you're dare

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i say primarily a violinist yes how how do you

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keep up the finger dexterity and finger health

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switching between viola and violin um not practicing

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enough um uh i think Okay, it helps me a little

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bit that I feel like viola parts are kind of

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a vacation for my hand. Oh, wow. I love playing

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in the viola section, but it's not as demanding

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to me personally as the first violin section.

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So even though the hand spacing is a lot harder,

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it isn't quite as strenuous. That's my take on

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that. Granted, I'm not playing solo stuff on

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viola typically either. So I'm sure that would

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change if I were. Certainly, certainly. And,

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you know, I also know that you are quite the

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gigging person. And I also know that you will

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be, you know, doing a graduate assistantship

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in the second year too. How do you find time

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to... you know, be when I, you know, you're a

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part time performer, but it's like if you were

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to do it in hours per week, it's it's quite the

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part time job that you have going on for yourself

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with the amount of performing and practicing

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that you do. How do you keep up with that with

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your studies? And that's not what your degree

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is. It's composition. How do you keep that up?

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Yeah, I just kind of do it. I don't know. I feel

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like. I think I'd go crazy if I just didn't do

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it. I don't know. I think it's just a huge part

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of my identity as a composer. And my life would

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feel like empty. So I just do. I don't know.

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It's not even a thought in my mind. I'm like,

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I just do it. You just do it. I just do it. I'm

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contracted. I go. Fair enough. Speaking of that,

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yourself as a composer, how would you describe

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yourself as a composer and extensively your music?

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I think if I'm getting really technical about

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it, like post -minimal, a lot of pan -diatonic

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stuff happening, like non -functional harmony.

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But a lot of my, like the focus of my music,

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I think I focus a lot on personal experiences

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and then kind of weird, like obsession type of

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things. Like I was... I haven't finished this

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piece, but I was writing a piece about, I heard

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these frogs outside and I took a little recording

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and I was like, oh my God, these frogs are doing

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like crazy polyrhythms right now. So that kind

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of stuff, like things that my brain like attaches

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itself to, I think is a lot of what I write about.

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And of course, as a string player, I love writing

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for strings. So I have a lot of stuff for strings,

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which is what the audience is hearing today and

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what we're talking about. Yeah. Yes, fair enough.

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And what if you were to identify like what composers

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have you found instructive to yourself or what

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music do you like or liken yours to, you know,

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post minimalist, lots of different angles you

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can go with that. It's not going to say trendy,

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but it's certainly a big pocket of calling something

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trendy is kind of weird in composition, because

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12 tone was trendy, like For 30 years. Yeah.

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And that's not how that, and also let us remind

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ourselves, for 30 years, over 100 years ago.

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But anyways. Not contemporary anymore. Yes. Do

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you remember Gabe Gokoski's hat? Schoenberg is

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not contemporary. I think so, yeah. Yes. That

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was always very funny. But what composers do

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you find inspiration in? I feel like I find inspiration

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in different composers for different reasons.

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I love Holst for his orchestration. I think his

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orchestration is amazing. And I don't write that

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much for orchestra. But I think it's just sparkly

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and clean and beautiful. And I love Stravinsky

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for how weird everything sounds in his music.

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Like with Tamverly. I really gravitate towards...

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Like today, contemporary, I love Caroline Shaw

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so much. I really love Sarah Kirkland Snyder.

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And then I feel like a lot of times I will go

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towards like specific pieces by specific composers,

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like more than their entire catalog of work.

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Oh, I will say I really love John Adams, of course.

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I had a moment with Chairman Dances last year.

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It was like the only thing I was listening to.

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Yeah, I think that covers like the composers

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that probably have the most influence on me.

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Fair enough. Yes, I particularly like Caroline

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Shaw as well. I remember for Composition Skills

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3, Dr. Sane had us go through or pick a contemporary

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composer and go through and catalog their entire

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back catalog and give notes on all of their pieces,

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which... Halfway through, I remember thinking,

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I wish I picked someone who was not as well -known,

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because Caroline Shaw has many, many, many pieces,

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but I very much can appreciate her catalog. Aaron,

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you're not going to believe this. I did Caroline

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Shaw for that project, too. Oh, you did? The

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year before, yes. Also, it's hard to find some

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of her works. They're not recording. She has

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written this, but I think she has a violin concerto.

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She has written this. No evidence of it anywhere.

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I'd love to hear it. It is odd how much music

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is just non -existent. And that's like for, you

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know, obviously there's the archival historical

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part of there's lots of erased compositional

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history, particularly of marginalized composers

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and female composers. But also even today, it's

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just like there's no evidence of some music existing.

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kind of it's pretty crazy just elective like

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maybe she who knows maybe she didn't like the

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piece and she's like you guys are not gonna hear

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it anymore but we have no idea yes yes certainly

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which is funny in the digital age you usually

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don't have that experience of not being able

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to find something but We're so privileged. It's

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quite frustrating when you can't find something

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immediately. And yet it's possible. She is proving

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it is possible to erase something from the internet.

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So today, in your compositional catalog, we're

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going to be talking about a piece titled Vigil,

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which is a six -movement work. We'll be going

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through each of the movements for string quartet.

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As very clearly in the program notes, and we'll

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be discussing this a fair amount, I'm sure, throughout

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this episode. But can you please give the audience

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the story and the background of Vigil? The sort

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of inception of this work is actually the final

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movement. I originally wrote it, I've revised

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it since, but I originally wrote it during undergrad.

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And I always knew I wanted to make a larger work

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out of it. I so when I was working on this piece,

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my dad had brain cancer and I played like the

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rough MIDI draft I had for him before I even

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had note performer. So it did not sound good.

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And I played this. I played like the first 10

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bars I had in when they were in that state. They're

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probably not even the same anymore. I played

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that for him. And that was. the last piece of

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my music he ever heard. So it wasn't always like

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about him, but it sort of became about him. And

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in that way, I wanted to, in writing like an

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entire string quartet based or starting with

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that movement, and I knew it was going to be

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the last movement, I wanted to have it serve

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as a memorializing piece for him. And I, along

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the line, like along the I don't know timeline

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I eventually wrote like titles down because I

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in my mind I was like I'm gonna write this quartet

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eventually so I had titles of movements written

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um except for the fifth movement the fifth movement

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uh was a suggestion by my professor that I needed

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a an in between between movements four and six

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um but all the other ones were pre -conceived

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of uh in my notes app on my phone. And so I wanted

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to make a piece that was kind of all -encompassing

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of my dad. It starts with sort of the inception

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or my conception of him and goes all the way

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through what happened with his cancer and then

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me reflecting on it. So that's kind of the whole

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thing. In one bubble. I wrote this question later

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on for the podcast, but I want to ask it now.

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So I, in my own experience, I have written a

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memorial piece as well. I'm going to generally

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call it that. You may not see it as that, but

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whatever. A piece that memorializes a person

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who had passed away, who was close to me. Now,

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I'm also not a composer, and I'm not nearly as

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finely trained as you, but... You are a composer.

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You write music. You're a composer. How about

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not? That's not at the top of my CV. How about

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that? Okay, fair. But I don't have nearly as

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much training as you do when it comes to fighting

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blocks in the mind and so on. But I found the

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process particularly... painful to write through.

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Any writer's block, any stumble or anything was

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heightened in its importance because it's like,

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like you were just saying, this piece encapsulates

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your father. And what I hear from that is that

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must have, I would feel a lot of pressure. It

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needs to be perfect. And so what is that like

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in the process of composing? I would say I think

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I kind of have that going on in my brain always

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when I'm composing. So I don't know if that element

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was particularly different for me, like throughout

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the writing process. I definitely have moments

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like writing something where I really thought

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about it. Like when I was writing the kind of

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mood expressive markings in the piece, that was

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really emotional because I was thinking a lot

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about like. what this represents or like when

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I was writing my program notes, that was really

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emotional. But during the actual composition

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process, I think I get very like in my composer

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headspace and it's not detached per se, but once

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I know what I'm going for, I can kind of just

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go for it. But I definitely did have. Many moments

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of like writer's block for sure, like not knowing

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exactly what I wanted to do or not having the

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motivation to do it or because it it was difficult.

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So, yeah. So the original portion of this piece

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was what ended up as the final movement is what

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he heard. But when did you put all this together,

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this piece, like as it is in this podcast? As

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it is in this podcast? I think finalized version,

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probably. I was prepping it for a submission

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for a competition. So final, final version would

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have been like April 15th. But I finished composing

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it in like December or January. I think January.

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All right. So it's 2025 and he passed away in

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2021. Here's this might be maybe more of a personal

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question, but why now? Why? bring it to life

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now in the way that it is? Um, in a very, uh,

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maybe not utilitarian way, I had to write something

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and I was writing it. I was writing that frog

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piece and I did not like what I was writing.

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And I was like, I've been wanting to do this

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for a long time and now I have like the creative

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space and the guidance to do it. And so kind

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of that, um, I think also like feeling comfortable

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enough with it. It took a while. I think if I

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was too emotional, I mean, I'm still emotional

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about it, but if I was, if it was too, like this

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just happened, I think it would have been a way

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different piece. And I wanted it to be more reflective

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than that. Fair enough. And also there's nothing

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wrong with a little bit of utilitarianism. We

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got to use what we have. Yeah. I needed to write

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something for my comp lessons. I was working

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on that frog piece and I was like, God, I hate

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the way this sounds. And then I was like, I just

00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:24.160
don't even want to work on this. I'm going to

00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:27.720
start writing the string quartet. So let's start

00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:31.039
with movement one. Now, all of these movements

00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:34.519
have very particular titles and I want to talk

00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:37.500
about them one at a time. So this is movement

00:19:37.500 --> 00:20:24.779
one. You had a dark ring around your iris. Can

00:20:24.779 --> 00:20:28.079
you tell us what that title means in relation

00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:32.420
to the overall piece? So this is kind of like

00:20:32.420 --> 00:20:35.700
the starting point inception of I wanted to create

00:20:35.700 --> 00:20:41.519
an image of my dad before going like pre -cancer,

00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:46.519
like just going like he's coming into being and

00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:50.720
then eventually get into what else happened.

00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:54.720
So I wanted a movement that. sort of set up this

00:20:54.720 --> 00:21:01.039
story but wasn't fully involved in in that aspect

00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:04.579
of it so dark ring around your iris he had a

00:21:04.579 --> 00:21:08.460
dark ring around his iris oh okay fair enough

00:21:08.460 --> 00:21:12.420
that makes sense with that and yeah you know

00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:15.720
the the texture of this movement is probably

00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:21.519
i would say unscientifically, probably the closest

00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:24.259
to that sort of like post minimalist idea that

00:21:24.259 --> 00:21:26.500
you have going because of the shoulder instruments

00:21:26.500 --> 00:21:30.880
of what they're doing. It's a very dense and

00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:34.680
restless texture. And until the melodic function

00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:37.640
of the cello comes in, you can't really tell

00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:41.440
what meter it's in because of the different phasing

00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:46.369
and layering. And it's like this wispy sea of

00:21:46.369 --> 00:21:49.710
notes. And what led you to orchestrate the movement

00:21:49.710 --> 00:21:54.329
in that kind of, I don't want to say confused,

00:21:54.329 --> 00:21:58.470
but let's say hazy kind of way? Yeah, I love

00:21:58.470 --> 00:22:02.190
doing that. I love confusing the meter. That

00:22:02.190 --> 00:22:07.829
is my favorite thing. Maybe. Yeah, I had the

00:22:07.829 --> 00:22:10.650
first violin in my mind at first, and then I

00:22:10.650 --> 00:22:13.720
wanted it to not be as like... this is the beat,

00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:17.319
this is the meter we're in, you know, like, I

00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:22.380
wanted it to be more fluid than that. And like

00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:26.900
changing, I like when, you know, parts interlock

00:22:26.900 --> 00:22:30.500
in different ways. I think one of our professors,

00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:34.160
Dr. G, he uses this in our digital synthesis

00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:38.339
class, but he talks about the concept of anti

00:22:38.339 --> 00:22:40.559
-loops I think he came up with that but it's

00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:42.980
like it sounds like it's looping but it's actually

00:22:42.980 --> 00:22:47.700
not with the way things are lining up um so I

00:22:47.700 --> 00:22:51.099
think that concept is cool and applying it to

00:22:51.099 --> 00:22:53.039
like acoustic music I think works really well

00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:58.480
also um so yeah I like to create little fluttery

00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:00.359
things happening that are different every time

00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.779
but in that way subvert expectations and don't

00:23:03.779 --> 00:23:08.470
make it Too boring. Fair enough. Certainly subverting

00:23:08.470 --> 00:23:11.849
expectations. Some of that Stravinsky -esque

00:23:11.849 --> 00:23:15.890
and John Adams -esque sort of metric manipulation

00:23:15.890 --> 00:23:20.349
that you have going on. So let's go on to movement

00:23:20.349 --> 00:24:09.950
two, titled Butterfly Mass. What can you tell

00:24:09.950 --> 00:24:13.210
us about that title and the overall conception

00:24:13.210 --> 00:24:17.730
of it? Yeah. So what the brain cancer that my

00:24:17.730 --> 00:24:23.990
dad had was a glioblastoma. And just for context,

00:24:24.089 --> 00:24:26.490
because I had never heard of that in my life

00:24:26.490 --> 00:24:30.609
before, that is probably the, I can't speak to

00:24:30.609 --> 00:24:33.789
this exactly. But my impression is that that

00:24:33.789 --> 00:24:36.569
is like the most aggressive brain tumor. It's

00:24:36.569 --> 00:24:40.390
extremely fast growing. It's malignant. It like

00:24:40.390 --> 00:24:43.869
takes over whatever part of the brain it's in.

00:24:43.890 --> 00:24:45.750
It has like tendrils so you can't even really

00:24:45.750 --> 00:24:50.829
operate on it. And even if you're able to like

00:24:50.829 --> 00:24:54.190
shrink it or eradicate it with chemo and radiation,

00:24:54.430 --> 00:24:59.500
it comes back. extreme malignant brain tumor.

00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:03.380
Specifically, he had a butterfly glioblastoma,

00:25:03.579 --> 00:25:07.079
which is that it's on both hemispheres of your

00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:11.640
brain. So it was on both sides, like on the center,

00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.279
like top of his brain, and it covered both sides.

00:25:16.099 --> 00:25:22.359
So butterfly mass is like butterfly as in that

00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:26.079
kind of tumor, and then mass as in tumor. But

00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:30.509
I thought, it would be interesting to play on

00:25:30.509 --> 00:25:36.269
those words, like mass as in Catholic mass. He

00:25:36.269 --> 00:25:38.910
grew up Catholic and granted I didn't grow up

00:25:38.910 --> 00:25:43.150
Catholic, but I thought the idea of taking my

00:25:43.150 --> 00:25:47.390
uneducated conception of like the music of a

00:25:47.390 --> 00:25:50.250
Catholic mass and taking that as inspiration

00:25:50.250 --> 00:25:54.289
and then taking the idea of a butterfly and adding

00:25:54.289 --> 00:25:57.819
that into. So I, I, I set out with like a very

00:25:57.819 --> 00:26:01.380
like homophonic kind of feeling, which in my

00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:07.460
brain is Catholic mass -y. And then I wanted

00:26:07.460 --> 00:26:09.900
this butterfly to be kind of floating around

00:26:09.900 --> 00:26:13.180
the whole thing as like a really little beautiful

00:26:13.180 --> 00:26:15.940
twinkle of light. But in reality, it's, you know,

00:26:15.940 --> 00:26:18.220
that's not what it is at all. So kind of just

00:26:18.220 --> 00:26:22.759
playing on words like that. See, I was, I got

00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:25.680
the, obviously I didn't know the details of,

00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:29.640
your father's uh cancer so i didn't pick up yeah

00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:33.119
on that actual meaning but i got the mass part

00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.599
i understood it as a um but also with the butterfly

00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:41.099
part i thought of it usually i don't know when

00:26:41.099 --> 00:26:43.660
i say usually i don't quote me on that but i

00:26:43.660 --> 00:26:45.880
always get the vibe whenever a butterflies are

00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:48.299
invoked it has something to do with rebirth because

00:26:48.299 --> 00:26:52.480
of the stages of becoming a butterfly which i

00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:57.390
guess in this case um morbidly would be the growth

00:26:57.390 --> 00:27:01.990
of the cancer because it could be or i guess

00:27:01.990 --> 00:27:07.529
it could be like that i'm creating new stuff

00:27:07.529 --> 00:27:11.049
out of this horrible thing that happened you

00:27:11.049 --> 00:27:13.309
can see it that way too that's a more positive

00:27:13.309 --> 00:27:17.509
way let's choose that and also i you know i want

00:27:17.509 --> 00:27:21.230
i was going to say it at the at the at the end

00:27:21.230 --> 00:27:23.930
of this like talking about the movement sort

00:27:23.930 --> 00:27:27.250
of things but i i just want to acknowledge that

00:27:27.250 --> 00:27:30.150
you're that you're very candid about all of this

00:27:30.150 --> 00:27:35.609
and i i appreciate you sharing it um i'm almost

00:27:35.609 --> 00:27:37.890
surprised how candid you are with all this oh

00:27:37.890 --> 00:27:41.869
yeah this is pretty heavy yeah it's it is pretty

00:27:41.869 --> 00:27:45.890
i did have practice in uh i presented in comps

00:27:45.890 --> 00:27:50.359
like a forum uh a couple weeks ago That I was

00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:52.480
not as comfortable with. It also helps, you know,

00:27:52.500 --> 00:27:55.119
I've known you for a really long time. Like you're

00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:59.400
a very comfortable person to talk to. Compliments.

00:27:59.880 --> 00:28:03.380
Thank you. Good podcast host, but it definitely

00:28:03.380 --> 00:28:06.640
makes it a lot more comfortable. But I've talked

00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:09.400
about this topic, you know, a lot in the last

00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:14.099
few years. So as much as I'm, you know, you're

00:28:14.099 --> 00:28:17.259
always mourning and grieving, but like I am now

00:28:17.259 --> 00:28:19.740
much more. comfortable talking about it i think

00:28:19.740 --> 00:28:23.500
in comp forum i was not and the first time i

00:28:23.500 --> 00:28:25.259
talked about writing this piece with my professor

00:28:25.259 --> 00:28:29.299
last fall i was not she was very supportive um

00:28:29.299 --> 00:28:33.500
uh oh also something that i'm thinking about

00:28:33.500 --> 00:28:36.160
now regarding the title of the piece that was

00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:39.440
brought up in comp studio when i presented it

00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:44.339
the concept of like if it's a mass of butterflies

00:28:44.339 --> 00:28:48.150
that i think does not apply I just thought I'd

00:28:48.150 --> 00:28:50.809
bring that up. It's not a big group of butterflies.

00:28:52.849 --> 00:28:58.890
I don't think most people will confuse it as

00:28:58.890 --> 00:29:03.829
that. Yeah. With all these multiple meanings,

00:29:03.990 --> 00:29:06.529
I just wanted to clarify this one kind of doesn't

00:29:06.529 --> 00:29:10.470
apply. It's not a swarm of butterflies. No. Okay.

00:29:10.869 --> 00:29:13.839
Yeah. But yeah, I just wanted to address that,

00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:19.119
this incredibly heavy topic. I'm happy that you're

00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:21.460
okay talking about it, and I appreciate you bringing

00:29:21.460 --> 00:29:24.339
it onto such a public forum as well with this.

00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:30.200
Yeah, it's cathartic. I was thinking catharsis.

00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:32.339
I'm like, that's not the right conjugation of

00:29:32.339 --> 00:29:37.000
that. It's cathartic. So let's move on to movement

00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:40.900
three, titled Where Your Back Was Still Warm.

00:30:46.860 --> 00:30:49.440
Now, Amelia, we were just talking about your

00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:52.140
candidness with this. I'm a little bit nervous

00:30:52.140 --> 00:30:55.839
to ask what this title necessarily means. Can

00:30:55.839 --> 00:31:00.099
you please share? Yeah, this is probably... I

00:31:00.099 --> 00:31:02.880
guess maybe we should have put a trigger warning

00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:05.160
at the beginning of the episode. I'll put one

00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:07.119
at the very beginning of the episode. Okay, cool.

00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:12.619
This is when it applies. So, I was the... only

00:31:12.619 --> 00:31:15.400
member of my family who was not there when my

00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:17.859
dad died. Like, everybody else was there. His

00:31:17.859 --> 00:31:21.940
mom and his dad, my grandparents, who are divorced,

00:31:22.019 --> 00:31:25.319
were both there. And my mom and my brother, they

00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:27.299
were all there in the room when it happened.

00:31:28.180 --> 00:31:32.200
And when my mom was on the phone telling me about,

00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:37.500
like, what went on, I think he loves Star Wars.

00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:40.160
I think they had Star Wars playing, which is

00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:46.089
very sweet. And she told me when like the EMTs

00:31:46.089 --> 00:31:49.089
or whoever paramedics came and took him away,

00:31:49.230 --> 00:31:52.769
they touched his back where it was still warm.

00:31:52.869 --> 00:31:57.049
And that always like stuck with me from that

00:31:57.049 --> 00:32:01.269
phone call. It was just like such an interesting

00:32:01.269 --> 00:32:07.079
detail to include, but so like tender. And I

00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:11.019
thought like this sticks with me so much. I just

00:32:11.019 --> 00:32:15.259
have to use that as like the title of like the

00:32:15.259 --> 00:32:21.039
movement about him dying. So that is that title.

00:32:21.140 --> 00:32:24.480
Yeah. And I wanted it to sort of feel like a

00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:28.339
lullaby a little bit, but obviously it descends

00:32:28.339 --> 00:32:32.920
into not a lullaby. This was the movement where,

00:32:33.059 --> 00:32:37.420
at least emotionally, the weight of the subject

00:32:37.420 --> 00:32:40.579
started to kick in for me. Not just title, but

00:32:40.579 --> 00:32:44.579
I would compare this. I don't always like to

00:32:44.579 --> 00:32:47.339
say, oh, you sound like this composer or so on.

00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:51.259
But just for reference, it felt very quartet

00:32:51.259 --> 00:32:55.140
at the end of time, kind of. That kind of dread

00:32:55.140 --> 00:33:02.509
or emotional density. to the texture. And I feel,

00:33:02.609 --> 00:33:06.190
you know, I feel like up to this point, this

00:33:06.190 --> 00:33:08.569
movement might have been pretty difficult to

00:33:08.569 --> 00:33:12.549
compose on that level. Yeah, it was at first

00:33:12.549 --> 00:33:16.250
difficult for me to compose because none of the

00:33:16.250 --> 00:33:20.450
playback sounds worked. I had to really, really

00:33:20.450 --> 00:33:24.910
like abuse Dorico to get playback to work. But

00:33:24.910 --> 00:33:29.730
yeah, I knew this was going to be like, the heaviest

00:33:29.730 --> 00:33:32.210
movement, like the center of the piece pretty

00:33:32.210 --> 00:33:34.509
much. I mean, now it's not five movements, so

00:33:34.509 --> 00:33:36.390
it's not exactly the center of the piece. But

00:33:36.390 --> 00:33:40.769
it's, yeah, I knew it was going to be heavier

00:33:40.769 --> 00:33:44.269
and I knew I kind of, I wanted it to start like

00:33:44.269 --> 00:33:47.589
a lullaby. I wanted it to not be as busy. Kind

00:33:47.589 --> 00:33:50.509
of sounds like, it doesn't sound like tinnitus,

00:33:50.589 --> 00:33:53.730
like violin harmonics don't sound like tinnitus,

00:33:53.809 --> 00:33:57.380
but like I wanted that kind of. feeling like

00:33:57.380 --> 00:34:02.960
very still very just pure and then eventually

00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:07.380
as I was writing it I didn't keep it as a lullaby

00:34:07.380 --> 00:34:11.380
necessarily like the third iteration of the melody

00:34:11.380 --> 00:34:16.920
like devolves and yeah so it kind of became a

00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:21.900
lullaby into like screaming outpouring of grief

00:34:21.900 --> 00:34:28.699
type of feeling yeah And so earlier in this podcast,

00:34:28.739 --> 00:34:33.500
you described the piece as a whole and the progression

00:34:33.500 --> 00:34:36.619
of movements also as a linear progression of

00:34:36.619 --> 00:34:40.760
time. So we're about to move on to the next movement.

00:34:40.820 --> 00:34:44.000
I'm asking this because of that title. In the

00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:49.320
timeline of the piece and in reality, he's now

00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:53.489
passed away. Yes. Okay. And I ask that because

00:34:53.489 --> 00:34:57.690
Movement 4, titled My Hands Now Shape Just As

00:34:57.690 --> 00:36:14.690
You Were. So, yeah, this is where the more reflective

00:36:14.690 --> 00:36:17.429
part of the piece comes in, where I'm thinking

00:36:17.429 --> 00:36:20.329
about the impact my dad had on my life. And I

00:36:20.329 --> 00:36:24.449
think it's huge. I always thought my hands kind

00:36:24.449 --> 00:36:28.530
of looked like my dad's. And so when I was coming

00:36:28.530 --> 00:36:31.849
up with these little titles in my notes app,

00:36:32.010 --> 00:36:37.250
I just felt like that was an interesting way

00:36:37.250 --> 00:36:42.099
of reflecting on that. He impacted me so much

00:36:42.099 --> 00:36:45.659
and, you know, is evident in like every part

00:36:45.659 --> 00:36:50.719
of me. Like it's evident by my genes. It's in

00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:52.679
the shape of my hands. It's in the color of my

00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:57.400
eyes. It's like the bump on my nose. It's in

00:36:57.400 --> 00:37:02.539
everything. And so connecting that to like the

00:37:02.539 --> 00:37:06.800
physical element of him being my dad, my biological

00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:13.500
dad. I thought was apt. And so I always thought

00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:18.139
his hands looked like my hands and I wanted to,

00:37:18.139 --> 00:37:20.699
again, like play on that. So I, it's a lot of

00:37:20.699 --> 00:37:23.880
octaves. So like the handshape of the instrument,

00:37:23.940 --> 00:37:27.260
I don't do that to the cellist, but for violin

00:37:27.260 --> 00:37:30.340
and viola, a lot of octaves because that's, you

00:37:30.340 --> 00:37:31.980
know, the handshape of the instrument. I eventually

00:37:31.980 --> 00:37:35.420
break that rule, but I thought that would be

00:37:35.420 --> 00:37:39.570
a funny way of. incorporating that that's so

00:37:39.570 --> 00:37:43.329
fascinating that you included an element of like

00:37:43.329 --> 00:37:46.670
embodiment in the physicality of how it's played

00:37:46.670 --> 00:37:49.489
i read it as you know through the notes they

00:37:49.489 --> 00:37:52.050
sent you a little bit differently is that you

00:37:52.050 --> 00:37:54.210
know when you're you're talking about yourself

00:37:54.210 --> 00:37:57.929
as a reflection of your father uh i think of

00:37:57.929 --> 00:38:00.530
you know the different elements such as the octaves

00:38:00.530 --> 00:38:03.179
and the at least for those moments, relative

00:38:03.179 --> 00:38:06.780
melodic and harmonic simplicity. And also the

00:38:06.780 --> 00:38:10.940
little plucky pizzicato elements in there as

00:38:10.940 --> 00:38:15.239
kind of like a calling to the audience to recognize

00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:20.079
it as like childlike or whimsical. And I don't

00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:22.480
want to call your music simple, but like a simple

00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:27.760
sounding texture. And that made me think of something

00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:31.219
in topic theory or something that I thought of,

00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:36.300
or I saw recently by Janet Bourne, the childhood

00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:39.860
topic in film music, which I'll have a citation

00:38:39.860 --> 00:38:42.019
in the show notes for everybody in the description

00:38:42.019 --> 00:38:44.840
if they want to go ahead and read Janet Bourne's

00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:47.659
contribution to topic theory with that. But,

00:38:47.659 --> 00:38:50.400
you know, what topic theory is for the listeners

00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:53.840
is, generally speaking, it can get pretty complicated

00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:56.260
pretty quickly, but when it applies to, like,

00:38:56.260 --> 00:38:59.599
film music, it's different elements within music

00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:04.429
that... generate specific thoughts and feelings

00:39:04.429 --> 00:39:09.030
in listeners, in audience. So in this case, we

00:39:09.030 --> 00:39:12.130
have simplistic harmonic movement, simplistic

00:39:12.130 --> 00:39:15.610
melodic movement, the act of lots of perfect

00:39:15.610 --> 00:39:18.489
intervals, one after the other, and the kind

00:39:18.489 --> 00:39:22.650
of plucky pizzicato cello, although not scientific

00:39:22.650 --> 00:39:26.500
in my diagnosis here. This is... Very similar

00:39:26.500 --> 00:39:30.260
to evoke the sense of simplicity and naivete

00:39:30.260 --> 00:39:34.559
that we associate with childhood. An example

00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:38.940
in Janet Bourne's writing that she uses is some

00:39:38.940 --> 00:39:41.760
of the introductory themes in Inside Out. When

00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:44.960
Riley is born, the soundtrack has a lot of these

00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:48.059
very similar things and it's to evoke a sense

00:39:48.059 --> 00:39:52.260
of innocence and so on. So I will put topic theory

00:39:52.260 --> 00:39:53.960
to the side for the moment because that's not

00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:55.340
what we're talking about here and it can get

00:39:55.340 --> 00:39:59.159
really complicated really quickly. But that's

00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:02.179
just something I thought of with this movement

00:40:02.179 --> 00:40:04.739
that I thought was pretty cool. So again, link

00:40:04.739 --> 00:40:08.579
in the description to Janet Bourne's work with

00:40:08.579 --> 00:40:12.989
that. Yeah. Regarding that, I actually, I do

00:40:12.989 --> 00:40:15.909
definitely agree that like the later middle section

00:40:15.909 --> 00:40:19.369
with the pizzicato and like even right before

00:40:19.369 --> 00:40:21.590
that, I think there are for sure elements where

00:40:21.590 --> 00:40:25.269
I was like going for a childlike wonder. I don't

00:40:25.269 --> 00:40:27.670
know if necessarily the opening I was thinking

00:40:27.670 --> 00:40:30.869
about that with the octaves, but as it, you know,

00:40:30.869 --> 00:40:34.269
eventually. Like the rhythms get smaller and

00:40:34.269 --> 00:40:37.130
smaller and smaller. And then it becomes a pizzicato

00:40:37.130 --> 00:40:39.849
section. I think for sure that is in there. And

00:40:39.849 --> 00:40:43.110
I also, you know, in my expressive markings and

00:40:43.110 --> 00:40:46.369
stuff, that is like pretty explicit. Yeah. Yeah.

00:40:46.449 --> 00:40:49.230
I certainly thought, especially at the moments

00:40:49.230 --> 00:40:51.289
where you have the broken octaves, where it's

00:40:51.289 --> 00:40:55.429
played separately. It was very fun. It was a

00:40:55.429 --> 00:40:58.070
very fun movement for me. At first, I was very

00:40:58.070 --> 00:41:01.250
like unconvinced of what I had written. But the

00:41:01.250 --> 00:41:04.550
more I thought about it as like once I had written

00:41:04.550 --> 00:41:08.070
these expressive marking, like the like basically

00:41:08.070 --> 00:41:11.769
poetry I have going on with the music. I don't

00:41:11.769 --> 00:41:13.570
know if the audience is going to be able to see

00:41:13.570 --> 00:41:17.809
that. They can if you're able to show it to them.

00:41:17.869 --> 00:41:23.230
I don't know. You have my permission. But once

00:41:23.230 --> 00:41:26.369
I really connected to that sense of like this

00:41:26.369 --> 00:41:29.780
is a. connecting back to childhood it like a

00:41:29.780 --> 00:41:31.860
lot of what I had already written like clicked

00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:34.280
for me a lot better and actually it was my professor

00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:36.300
that pointed out that it sounds like childlike

00:41:36.300 --> 00:41:38.559
and I was like huh I didn't I hadn't thought

00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:40.719
about it that way but yeah and it makes sense

00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:43.739
for what I was writing like reflective like all

00:41:43.739 --> 00:41:46.139
the way back to the beginning basically certainly

00:41:46.139 --> 00:41:51.739
certainly and so going on to movement five everything

00:41:51.739 --> 00:42:51.250
I wish I could tell you about What rationale

00:42:51.250 --> 00:42:53.590
were you thinking when how you wanted to express

00:42:53.590 --> 00:42:57.630
what you could tell him about? Because everyone

00:42:57.630 --> 00:42:59.869
could have a different idea with something that

00:42:59.869 --> 00:43:03.250
wide open. But why did you choose the approach

00:43:03.250 --> 00:43:08.750
that you did? Yeah, so I think when it was posited

00:43:08.750 --> 00:43:12.550
to me by my professor that maybe there should

00:43:12.550 --> 00:43:17.699
be some sort of. that some sort of musical thing

00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:20.239
happening between movements four and six, which

00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:24.659
were then four and five. She framed it as like,

00:43:24.699 --> 00:43:29.019
we need a return to the first movement for it

00:43:29.019 --> 00:43:32.199
to feel like in a narrative sense, complete.

00:43:32.380 --> 00:43:36.139
And I totally agreed with that. And I did, I

00:43:36.139 --> 00:43:38.440
loved like the material I had in the first movement.

00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:43.059
So I was very happy to do that. And now I think

00:43:43.059 --> 00:43:45.059
actually the fifth movement is kind of like,

00:43:45.309 --> 00:43:47.489
For me, the most fun to listen to. I love the

00:43:47.489 --> 00:43:50.789
fifth movement. So I'm very happy that she pointed

00:43:50.789 --> 00:43:54.329
that out to me. In the same way that the first

00:43:54.329 --> 00:43:56.409
movement feels, like, all -encompassing and,

00:43:56.449 --> 00:43:58.510
like, this... I don't know. To me, it feels like

00:43:58.510 --> 00:44:01.469
the formation of, like, a galaxy or something.

00:44:01.650 --> 00:44:04.329
That's kind of, like, the formation of this entire

00:44:04.329 --> 00:44:07.510
person, like, just from thin air. It kind of

00:44:07.510 --> 00:44:11.989
feels like this, like, dissolving of this same

00:44:11.989 --> 00:44:15.480
idea. Like... Everything is kind of coming apart

00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:18.840
in the same way, but not in like a negative way,

00:44:18.900 --> 00:44:22.500
just in a way of like. I don't know. Again, I'm

00:44:22.500 --> 00:44:24.679
not religious, but like from dust, we come into

00:44:24.679 --> 00:44:26.340
dust, we return. I don't even know if that's

00:44:26.340 --> 00:44:29.000
like the exact if I'm quoting that correctly,

00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:32.500
but that kind of idea, like totally forming out

00:44:32.500 --> 00:44:35.840
of nothing and then going back to being of nothing.

00:44:36.619 --> 00:44:40.840
So that that was kind of my way of it's not even

00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:45.320
necessarily. That there is anything in the movement

00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:48.539
specifically that I want to tell him about. And

00:44:48.539 --> 00:44:52.639
yet it's like the feeling of wanting to tell

00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:55.880
him about things. Like every time, granted, I

00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:59.639
don't think Marvel movies are holding up, but

00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:01.340
like every time a Marvel movie would come out,

00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:04.900
like at first, like I think WandaVision came

00:45:04.900 --> 00:45:08.280
out after he died and he loved superhero movies.

00:45:08.360 --> 00:45:11.650
He loved Star Wars. Every time that would happen,

00:45:11.690 --> 00:45:13.190
I'd be like, God, I wish I could call my dad

00:45:13.190 --> 00:45:15.630
and, like, tell him how cool this show is. Like,

00:45:15.630 --> 00:45:17.769
stupid stuff like that. And then more important

00:45:17.769 --> 00:45:21.489
things. Like, getting into my master's degree

00:45:21.489 --> 00:45:24.730
at his alma mater. Like, I'm at FSU. That's where

00:45:24.730 --> 00:45:27.710
both my parents went. And I didn't get in for

00:45:27.710 --> 00:45:30.269
music in undergrad. And that was a huge thing.

00:45:30.469 --> 00:45:33.650
And, like, being able to tell him about that,

00:45:33.690 --> 00:45:36.170
like, huge step in my life that would be so meaningful

00:45:36.170 --> 00:45:39.309
to him that I can't tell him about. So like those

00:45:39.309 --> 00:45:41.969
kinds of things, like big and small, but the

00:45:41.969 --> 00:45:45.309
feeling of not being able to tell him about things,

00:45:45.389 --> 00:45:47.429
I think is probably what I was going for more.

00:45:48.809 --> 00:45:51.929
Understandable, understandable. And in that same

00:45:51.929 --> 00:45:56.750
line of that kind of cycle of generative, you

00:45:56.750 --> 00:46:00.530
know, formation of a galaxy and then I don't

00:46:00.530 --> 00:46:03.550
know the exact quote either, but from Dust We

00:46:03.550 --> 00:46:06.860
Come and so on, I suppose that. goes in line

00:46:06.860 --> 00:46:11.099
with the title of Movement 6, and so we start

00:46:11.099 --> 00:47:54.059
again. I was I was a bit confused by that title.

00:47:54.920 --> 00:47:59.800
Is that in line with that same thinking? I guess

00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:03.559
you can interpret it to be. All right. What is

00:48:03.559 --> 00:48:06.739
it actually? Well, I originally, you know, that

00:48:06.739 --> 00:48:09.280
movement was on its own. It was totally standalone.

00:48:09.380 --> 00:48:15.739
And so my thing when or my idea of it when I

00:48:15.739 --> 00:48:17.619
first wrote it, like that is the original title

00:48:17.619 --> 00:48:21.309
I had for this. It started as a different piece.

00:48:22.289 --> 00:48:24.730
Anyway, I originally had like a violin cello

00:48:24.730 --> 00:48:26.730
duet that had that material and then I turned

00:48:26.730 --> 00:48:28.210
it into a string quartet and then that's what

00:48:28.210 --> 00:48:31.449
my dad heard. But that violin cello duet does

00:48:31.449 --> 00:48:35.809
not exist anymore. So just like that Caroline

00:48:35.809 --> 00:48:40.389
Shaw violin concerto. But when I was writing

00:48:40.389 --> 00:48:45.469
this originally as its own thing, it was kind

00:48:45.469 --> 00:48:49.989
of the feeling of like, and we still like, Get

00:48:49.989 --> 00:48:53.210
up every day like this. This insane thing happened

00:48:53.210 --> 00:48:55.650
and we still get up. I think actually when I

00:48:55.650 --> 00:48:59.110
was writing it, I have clinical depression and

00:48:59.110 --> 00:49:01.769
I I think I was writing more about my depression,

00:49:01.969 --> 00:49:05.869
honestly, than it was about my dad. But I mean,

00:49:05.889 --> 00:49:08.929
the same feeling applies there. Something horrible

00:49:08.929 --> 00:49:12.590
happens. You still get up every day. You still

00:49:12.590 --> 00:49:17.210
push through it. You start the day again. Like

00:49:17.210 --> 00:49:19.050
something horrible happens. You get back up.

00:49:20.080 --> 00:49:24.400
So that was kind of the idea with that one. Yeah.

00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:30.599
I can relate to that feeling. Earlier in the

00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:33.219
podcast, I referenced that I've also written

00:49:33.219 --> 00:49:37.539
a memorialized piece for someone that I knew.

00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:41.019
It was my grandfather. And I remember when I

00:49:41.019 --> 00:49:45.280
first found out that he had passed away, which

00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:49.199
he... Let's say it was not ceremonious in the

00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:52.179
slightest. And he lived in upstate New York.

00:49:52.639 --> 00:49:55.239
I live in Florida. You know, that's quite the

00:49:55.239 --> 00:50:00.059
distance away. And I was in Bradenton at State

00:50:00.059 --> 00:50:03.679
College of Florida in my first two years of undergrad.

00:50:03.760 --> 00:50:06.900
And I remember pulling up for a string quartet

00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:13.030
gig at a luncheon. fundraiser at the img golf

00:50:13.030 --> 00:50:16.349
club i put my car in park i got a phone call

00:50:16.349 --> 00:50:20.869
from my mother that he had passed away i had

00:50:20.869 --> 00:50:23.889
a good cry for a couple minutes and then i had

00:50:23.889 --> 00:50:26.489
to get my violin out and i went and played christmas

00:50:26.489 --> 00:50:29.909
music for about an hour at that luncheon and

00:50:29.909 --> 00:50:32.809
then later that night we had the school's like

00:50:32.809 --> 00:50:38.639
a winter concert So talk about not being able

00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:41.199
to process it. And then because it's easy to,

00:50:41.300 --> 00:50:44.639
I just put that grief in my back pocket and went

00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:48.280
on with life, which turned out to be very not

00:50:48.280 --> 00:50:51.800
good for the following years. Yeah. And probably

00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:54.400
is why writing that piece was very difficult,

00:50:54.500 --> 00:50:56.780
because I just chose, because of circumstance,

00:50:56.980 --> 00:51:00.960
to not do anything with that grief. Yeah. I relate

00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:06.349
heavily. The day my dad died, I... I had just

00:51:06.349 --> 00:51:10.090
finished my online. It was during COVID sort

00:51:10.090 --> 00:51:14.610
of still. I just finished my online tuba final

00:51:14.610 --> 00:51:19.309
in a practice room for my brass skills class.

00:51:19.769 --> 00:51:23.730
I'm sorry to laugh, but that just sucks. Yeah,

00:51:23.730 --> 00:51:27.730
it did. It sucked. So I did my tuba final over

00:51:27.730 --> 00:51:32.469
Zoom. And then. I was walking to the bus, the

00:51:32.469 --> 00:51:35.329
bus stop to go home. I got the call from my mom.

00:51:35.789 --> 00:51:38.570
I was like, oh my God. And then I was sobbing

00:51:38.570 --> 00:51:42.309
on the bus all the way home. And yeah, that was

00:51:42.309 --> 00:51:45.570
pretty much what happened. And I think I stuck

00:51:45.570 --> 00:51:48.030
around to play a Gainesville Orchestra gig like

00:51:48.030 --> 00:51:51.329
the next day, or I think that night we had rehearsals,

00:51:51.329 --> 00:51:54.210
something like that. So very relatable. Yeah.

00:51:55.150 --> 00:52:00.119
Being a string player. Yes. Yeah. Doing your

00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:06.760
tuba final. Yeah, right after. Yep. Of all instruments,

00:52:06.940 --> 00:52:08.599
it had to be tuba, too. I know. I'm just kidding.

00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:11.579
Yeah, no, but for real, I hated tuba. Sorry to

00:52:11.579 --> 00:52:14.159
the tubists. I don't have the lung capacity.

00:52:14.340 --> 00:52:17.780
That's why I hated it. Yes, yes. Beautiful instrument.

00:52:18.320 --> 00:52:22.480
when other people play it though and so you know

00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:25.079
with the conclusion of this piece that you're

00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:27.199
you're ending the piece with what the original

00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:31.679
material was uh comprised of and now we've gone

00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:34.920
through this six movement journey uh this emotional

00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:38.500
roller coaster certainly what should as the audience

00:52:38.500 --> 00:52:42.480
we be feeling at the end of this piece or what

00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:47.829
is the intended pathos from How this piece ends.

00:52:48.610 --> 00:52:51.150
I think kind of like I was talking about, like

00:52:51.150 --> 00:52:57.090
catharsis. Okay. Is what I would hope for. I

00:52:57.090 --> 00:53:00.929
tried to, you know, end it on a positive note.

00:53:01.170 --> 00:53:05.670
And also I want to credit my quote of my last

00:53:05.670 --> 00:53:10.530
two chords in the final movement. That is actually

00:53:10.530 --> 00:53:17.559
from the piece porch, which is at. Is it Alan

00:53:17.559 --> 00:53:22.400
Silverman, I think, is the composer from the

00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:27.719
end of Avengers Infinity War. Those are like

00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:30.800
the last two chords. And it's like Thanos looking

00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:34.619
over his field. And I just like that piece. I

00:53:34.619 --> 00:53:37.599
know it's like so such a silly thing. It's like

00:53:37.599 --> 00:53:41.039
a superhero movie. But I don't know that that

00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:43.079
piece. It's like a minute and a half long and

00:53:43.079 --> 00:53:46.349
it ends with those two chords. And it is just

00:53:46.349 --> 00:53:50.429
so beautiful to me. So maybe that's another inspiration

00:53:50.429 --> 00:53:55.349
on my writing. But I was like, I have to use

00:53:55.349 --> 00:53:57.070
these two chords somewhere. And I thought it

00:53:57.070 --> 00:54:00.849
was like such a beautiful and sad ending to a

00:54:00.849 --> 00:54:04.090
movie. And again, I'm still talking about a Marvel

00:54:04.090 --> 00:54:08.590
movie. And it feels so stupid. But I just thought

00:54:08.590 --> 00:54:11.969
it was like so beautiful. And like you have this

00:54:11.969 --> 00:54:15.900
like total devastation in this movie. And you

00:54:15.900 --> 00:54:18.860
see the person who did that just so peaceful

00:54:18.860 --> 00:54:21.840
and like happy with what he did. I mean, it's

00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:24.079
not the same thing here. There's no like evil.

00:54:24.099 --> 00:54:30.960
Are you Thanos? I hope not. But I, I just thought

00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:34.460
that was so beautiful as like a weird mix of

00:54:34.460 --> 00:54:39.840
like pain and sorrow and then like gratification

00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:47.099
sort of and peace. And so, that's kind of like

00:54:47.099 --> 00:54:51.659
the end of that, I think is sort of the mix of

00:54:51.659 --> 00:54:55.019
emotions that I hope would happen at the end

00:54:55.019 --> 00:54:59.340
of the piece. I also, I do like in the performance

00:54:59.340 --> 00:55:01.739
notes, give the option of not playing the sixth

00:55:01.739 --> 00:55:05.519
movement, which, or actually playing the sixth

00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:08.039
movement in isolation. Granted, I think several

00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:09.579
movements could probably be played in isolation,

00:55:09.780 --> 00:55:15.519
but they're shorter. So I think, I think it would

00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:18.440
still work if like that same kind of idea would

00:55:18.440 --> 00:55:21.019
come across. If the sixth movement is omitted,

00:55:21.059 --> 00:55:25.380
like you still get an entire picture, like in

00:55:25.380 --> 00:55:28.659
a narrative form of this whole thing happening.

00:55:28.719 --> 00:55:32.199
And I hope, I would hope people can, you know,

00:55:32.199 --> 00:55:36.579
see their own experiences with death and grief

00:55:36.579 --> 00:55:41.650
in that. Yeah, certainly. as we close out the

00:55:41.650 --> 00:55:44.309
conversation around this piece i want to thank

00:55:44.309 --> 00:55:47.630
you again for your openness and candidness of

00:55:47.630 --> 00:55:50.789
coming on to such a public forum to talk about

00:55:50.789 --> 00:55:53.449
your experiences talk about your father and share

00:55:53.449 --> 00:55:57.250
this very personal piece and want to give you

00:55:57.250 --> 00:55:59.429
the opportunity is there anything else you want

00:55:59.429 --> 00:56:07.240
to say about vigil not necessarily i just i really

00:56:07.240 --> 00:56:11.820
loved uh what i came up with like i i feel like

00:56:11.820 --> 00:56:13.260
a lot of times you know you're done with the

00:56:13.260 --> 00:56:17.920
piece you're like ah i i just i was able to capture

00:56:17.920 --> 00:56:21.320
the like essence of my dad and i i it's it's

00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:24.219
a very interesting experience and i'm very grateful

00:56:24.219 --> 00:56:27.460
for for you for letting me talk about it on here

00:56:27.460 --> 00:56:32.920
so yeah of course music music in many ways is

00:56:32.920 --> 00:56:37.440
um Both prescriptive and reflective of the human

00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:42.880
experience. And unfortunately, and so death and

00:56:42.880 --> 00:56:45.820
grieving is part of it. And that reflects into

00:56:45.820 --> 00:56:50.699
our music. And speaking of music in a general

00:56:50.699 --> 00:56:53.219
sense, as we go into this final third of the

00:56:53.219 --> 00:56:57.760
podcast, I like to just generally ask people,

00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:02.880
what does music mean to you? Oh, like everything.

00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:08.659
I mean, easy answer. I don't know. I, I think

00:57:08.659 --> 00:57:11.679
like the, I always thought it was before I was

00:57:11.679 --> 00:57:15.039
a musician, like the music saved me. I always

00:57:15.039 --> 00:57:17.980
thought that was kind of like cringy, but like

00:57:17.980 --> 00:57:22.239
actually being a musician, like absolutely. Like

00:57:22.239 --> 00:57:25.659
I, I thought I wanted to be a, well, first I

00:57:25.659 --> 00:57:27.099
thought I wanted to be an astrophysicist and

00:57:27.099 --> 00:57:28.199
then I thought I wanted to be a mathematician.

00:57:28.699 --> 00:57:31.019
And then I had the two worst math and physics

00:57:31.019 --> 00:57:33.820
teachers ever in high school for two years. in

00:57:33.820 --> 00:57:37.739
three years in a row. Nice. And yeah, it was

00:57:37.739 --> 00:57:42.360
awesome. My senior year math class was me and

00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:45.199
one other girl. And the previous year, it had

00:57:45.199 --> 00:57:48.280
been two guys, two girls, me being one of the

00:57:48.280 --> 00:57:51.940
girls. And the first day of senior year, my teacher

00:57:51.940 --> 00:57:54.000
went, you know, if you would have told me it

00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:55.480
would have been the two of you who stuck around

00:57:55.480 --> 00:57:57.719
for senior year, I would not have believed you.

00:57:58.349 --> 00:58:03.769
Well, what is wrong with people? I don't think

00:58:03.769 --> 00:58:07.550
he's a teacher anymore. Good. Yeah, he was horrible.

00:58:07.670 --> 00:58:10.849
So anyway, I had some really bad experiences

00:58:10.849 --> 00:58:14.489
with what I thought were like the path to my

00:58:14.489 --> 00:58:17.190
entire life. And music was like the one thing

00:58:17.190 --> 00:58:21.269
that, not that it was like the one thing left,

00:58:21.389 --> 00:58:24.090
but it really was like the one thing left that

00:58:24.090 --> 00:58:28.159
felt like embracing in that way. And I just I

00:58:28.159 --> 00:58:31.179
always knew or not always because I didn't start

00:58:31.179 --> 00:58:34.960
music until middle school. But once I started

00:58:34.960 --> 00:58:37.420
playing violin, I was like, yeah, I'm not going

00:58:37.420 --> 00:58:40.639
to stop doing this. Like there's no reality in

00:58:40.639 --> 00:58:43.059
which I'm not playing violin or making music

00:58:43.059 --> 00:58:45.719
anymore. And then later I knew it was composition.

00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:49.780
But there was like not a moment where I was like,

00:58:49.880 --> 00:58:53.320
yeah, I'll give this up someday. So it felt logical.

00:58:53.320 --> 00:58:55.880
Like this is the one thing I have that I know

00:58:55.880 --> 00:58:59.840
I don't want to give up. And in that way, I just

00:58:59.840 --> 00:59:02.139
like poured everything into music from then on.

00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:05.599
And it did, it feels like it did save me. And

00:59:05.599 --> 00:59:08.900
like, it still sounds like cringe coming out

00:59:08.900 --> 00:59:12.699
of my mouth, but like, it really, that's kind

00:59:12.699 --> 00:59:15.840
of like what happened. Understandable. And yes,

00:59:15.860 --> 00:59:18.780
it is a little bit cringe without, without the

00:59:18.780 --> 00:59:22.619
context with it. It makes sense. I wish I had

00:59:22.619 --> 00:59:25.920
a better way of saying it. yeah no it's like

00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:29.000
when when you hear a like a like a 10th grader

00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:32.420
say that music saved them i'm like damn yeah

00:59:32.420 --> 00:59:37.400
you're in 10th grade like chill like i know paramore

00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:40.079
isn't probably around anymore but back then it

00:59:40.079 --> 00:59:43.659
had been like paramore saved your life like that's

00:59:43.659 --> 00:59:47.039
that's the idea in my brain like yeah yeah more

00:59:47.039 --> 00:59:51.920
saved my life i i actually personally have had

00:59:51.920 --> 00:59:55.460
a handful of moments where I'm like, I can see

00:59:55.460 --> 00:59:58.960
myself not doing this. And probably because our

00:59:58.960 --> 01:00:02.699
experiences or choice of engaging with music

01:00:02.699 --> 01:00:04.980
is a bit different because I'm significantly

01:00:04.980 --> 01:00:09.019
not a performer at all in the same way that you

01:00:09.019 --> 01:00:10.840
are. So I don't engage with that performance

01:00:10.840 --> 01:00:16.019
aspect. often criticized part of music theory

01:00:16.019 --> 01:00:18.300
which sometimes it has merit sometimes it doesn't

01:00:18.300 --> 01:00:21.000
this criticism is the detachment from the actual

01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:25.480
musical experience in a number of ways and so

01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:28.619
and when you're going through music theory graduate

01:00:28.619 --> 01:00:32.559
school you know to learn and become better in

01:00:32.559 --> 01:00:34.699
all the capacities you want you have to detach

01:00:34.699 --> 01:00:37.920
yourself sometimes it's just it's when you take

01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:40.550
a passion and then you do it every day, it becomes

01:00:40.550 --> 01:00:44.050
work. And so sometimes it can be very laborious,

01:00:44.130 --> 01:00:46.849
especially in my case, when you have a discipline

01:00:46.849 --> 01:00:50.269
that to learn certain modes of an analysis, you

01:00:50.269 --> 01:00:52.769
have to detach yourself. And so I've had many

01:00:52.769 --> 01:00:56.550
times where I'm like, I can see myself not doing

01:00:56.550 --> 01:00:59.250
this. This is kind of depressing and whatever.

01:00:59.389 --> 01:01:02.329
I was being just a bit dramatic and emotional

01:01:02.329 --> 01:01:07.210
at that time. But, you know, At least for me,

01:01:07.389 --> 01:01:12.670
when I see in other people it. OK, so I just

01:01:12.670 --> 01:01:16.090
wrapped up teaching the songwriting class at

01:01:16.090 --> 01:01:19.010
Florida State for the final time. So it's not

01:01:19.010 --> 01:01:23.530
music majors. And during the final exam, when

01:01:23.530 --> 01:01:25.769
people would they would present their final song

01:01:25.769 --> 01:01:28.449
project, they had to write a song. We would play

01:01:28.449 --> 01:01:30.070
it in class. Then I would ask them, you know,

01:01:30.070 --> 01:01:32.409
what major are you? What year are you in? What

01:01:32.409 --> 01:01:35.510
do you plan on doing? A lot of business majors,

01:01:35.630 --> 01:01:40.309
some stats majors, a lot of not related things

01:01:40.309 --> 01:01:45.210
to the class. And I find it just absolutely humbling

01:01:45.210 --> 01:01:48.650
to my own position, to yours, and to a lot of

01:01:48.650 --> 01:01:51.889
the people in this field. And it was heartwarming

01:01:51.889 --> 01:01:55.750
to hear a business management major after business

01:01:55.750 --> 01:01:58.489
management major, where I'm like, is that what

01:01:58.489 --> 01:02:00.610
you want to be doing? Or, you know, what do you

01:02:00.610 --> 01:02:03.159
want to do? And they're like... It's a job, but

01:02:03.159 --> 01:02:05.960
what I really want to do is music. And that is

01:02:05.960 --> 01:02:10.780
like the story of nearly every person in all

01:02:10.780 --> 01:02:15.619
of my classes. It is quite a privileged and phenomenal

01:02:15.619 --> 01:02:19.659
experience to have so much of your life centered

01:02:19.659 --> 01:02:23.440
on music. And sometimes I need to remind myself

01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:29.670
about that. I definitely feel you on that. when

01:02:29.670 --> 01:02:33.610
I think about it I'm like oh my god I like how

01:02:33.610 --> 01:02:37.170
did I get to be doing this like it is like an

01:02:37.170 --> 01:02:40.429
immense privilege like to be able to interact

01:02:40.429 --> 01:02:43.630
with music every day as like the main thing that

01:02:43.630 --> 01:02:47.210
we're doing it's I feel like I'm gonna get on

01:02:47.210 --> 01:02:50.510
a pedestal right now or podium or that's all

01:02:50.510 --> 01:02:53.349
right I do that I do that a fair amount too yeah

01:02:53.349 --> 01:02:57.570
it's especially okay with what's going on politically

01:02:57.570 --> 01:03:02.150
with I don't know. We're in Florida. Jacksonville

01:03:02.150 --> 01:03:05.449
University just totally eliminated all of the

01:03:05.449 --> 01:03:09.070
arts. We have the National Endowment for the

01:03:09.070 --> 01:03:12.690
Arts being totally eliminated. I don't know,

01:03:12.690 --> 01:03:14.630
cut in some way. I don't know exactly. It's bad.

01:03:14.690 --> 01:03:17.710
It's being threatened to be completely eliminated.

01:03:17.969 --> 01:03:23.130
It's not good. Art is what makes us human. I

01:03:23.130 --> 01:03:29.780
just don't understand. It's crazy that we're

01:03:29.780 --> 01:03:34.360
trying to make a world without art. We're trying

01:03:34.360 --> 01:03:36.539
to make a world where it's impossible to make

01:03:36.539 --> 01:03:39.239
art. Not that they think we should get rid of

01:03:39.239 --> 01:03:42.219
art, but they're taking steps to get rid of art,

01:03:42.320 --> 01:03:44.940
basically. They're taking steps to make it impossible

01:03:44.940 --> 01:03:48.139
to make art. And I just don't... Is that not

01:03:48.139 --> 01:03:50.719
what we all want to do? Why is AI making art

01:03:50.719 --> 01:03:54.199
for us? Why is AI not facilitating the other

01:03:54.199 --> 01:03:56.940
stuff so we can all make art? I just don't...

01:03:57.119 --> 01:04:00.900
That is, it boggles my mind what is going on

01:04:00.900 --> 01:04:04.239
with like the state of society and its relation

01:04:04.239 --> 01:04:08.260
to art right now. It's, yeah. So that's, that's

01:04:08.260 --> 01:04:10.900
my thoughts on that. It boggles my mind as well.

01:04:10.980 --> 01:04:13.739
And I'm actually glad you brought that up because

01:04:13.739 --> 01:04:19.159
in those sort of political discussions, I'm happy

01:04:19.159 --> 01:04:22.610
to tease that in the next episode. after this

01:04:22.610 --> 01:04:26.969
one will be with professor Michael Buckler, someone

01:04:26.969 --> 01:04:31.809
who has a lot to say about that. And I'm really

01:04:31.809 --> 01:04:33.610
looking forward to that. So I certainly will

01:04:33.610 --> 01:04:37.329
certainly welcome discussion of that. And yeah,

01:04:37.429 --> 01:04:41.070
I, I don't even fully know my opinion other than

01:04:41.070 --> 01:04:44.710
it's bad, but I don't, it's bad. Like there's

01:04:44.710 --> 01:04:47.489
so much going on all at once that it's hard to

01:04:47.489 --> 01:04:51.829
like formulate a plan or a plot to like, hold

01:04:51.829 --> 01:04:54.409
up any resistance especially when we individually

01:04:54.409 --> 01:04:57.869
are so limited in power especially if anyone

01:04:57.869 --> 01:05:00.650
is questioning our opinion or like what are we

01:05:00.650 --> 01:05:04.630
talking about uh i suggest you look up something

01:05:04.630 --> 01:05:09.309
uh in the artistic movement of the mid -20th

01:05:09.309 --> 01:05:12.409
century called soviet realism and you probably

01:05:13.400 --> 01:05:15.840
we'll see some parallels to what is happening

01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:19.119
now in the United States. Look at the history

01:05:19.119 --> 01:05:22.639
of Shostakovich and many Russian composers and

01:05:22.639 --> 01:05:26.920
artists after World War II, and actually during

01:05:26.920 --> 01:05:33.579
the entire Stalin regime. Yeah, when is the U

01:05:33.579 --> 01:05:35.860
.S. government going to start employing theorists

01:05:35.860 --> 01:05:43.480
to analyze intervals again? Oh, yeah. I don't

01:05:43.480 --> 01:05:47.519
know if they know, like, I don't know if anyone

01:05:47.519 --> 01:05:50.159
in government currently is aware enough about

01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:54.139
music to know that that is a thing. You know

01:05:54.139 --> 01:06:00.190
they're not. Yeah, they're not. Or to even know

01:06:00.190 --> 01:06:02.269
that a theorist is a person you could hire to

01:06:02.269 --> 01:06:06.969
do that. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Only a forensic

01:06:06.969 --> 01:06:09.949
musicologist, which is just to win a court case

01:06:09.949 --> 01:06:13.530
with bullshit copyright claims. Yeah. Anyways,

01:06:13.670 --> 01:06:18.329
so for now, let's pivot off of that. That will

01:06:18.329 --> 01:06:21.010
be talked significantly more about with Professor

01:06:21.010 --> 01:06:25.309
Buckler in two weeks after this episode premieres.

01:06:25.309 --> 01:06:30.869
But anyways. Let's go on to, we've already talked,

01:06:30.929 --> 01:06:33.730
we talked a bit about your relationship with

01:06:33.730 --> 01:06:36.730
music. So let's, let's get a little bit, let's

01:06:36.730 --> 01:06:38.429
go in a different direction. How about music

01:06:38.429 --> 01:06:43.010
theory? Where does that end up in your zeitgeist

01:06:43.010 --> 01:06:45.329
of like what music means to you? And you can

01:06:45.329 --> 01:06:48.829
also, I happen to be wearing a music theory t

01:06:48.829 --> 01:06:51.530
-shirt right now. And you know, you know who

01:06:51.530 --> 01:06:54.389
I am. But you can say something bad if you want.

01:06:55.630 --> 01:07:00.570
I think. I think. Okay. I think music theory

01:07:00.570 --> 01:07:05.050
is very fun. I love puzzles. And I think that

01:07:05.050 --> 01:07:07.530
is what music theory a lot of times feels like

01:07:07.530 --> 01:07:13.070
to me. I think I'm going to say an anecdote.

01:07:13.969 --> 01:07:19.230
I realized a couple months ago in one of the

01:07:19.230 --> 01:07:22.780
classes I'm in. For the first, as a, okay, as

01:07:22.780 --> 01:07:25.559
a composer, you know, I love contemporary stuff.

01:07:25.699 --> 01:07:27.820
I imagine you do too, because you have this podcast.

01:07:28.619 --> 01:07:32.380
I don't think I realized like at our undergrad,

01:07:32.460 --> 01:07:35.480
like we didn't have a ton of theory majors. It

01:07:35.480 --> 01:07:38.079
was pretty much you. So you were the only theorist

01:07:38.079 --> 01:07:40.599
I knew of. Now I'm at an institution with a lot

01:07:40.599 --> 01:07:43.440
of theorists. I did not realize music theorists

01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:48.300
like classical music. what what my mind has been

01:07:48.300 --> 01:07:52.579
blown i'm like you guys like this okay define

01:07:52.579 --> 01:07:55.500
classical music in that like classical era sorry

01:07:55.500 --> 01:08:01.280
classical era music like mozart i'm like we're

01:08:01.280 --> 01:08:03.719
we're talking about like the differences between

01:08:03.719 --> 01:08:08.360
mozart piano sonatas right now i just have never

01:08:08.360 --> 01:08:11.920
that has never been a thought in my mind yeah

01:08:11.920 --> 01:08:14.800
so i love music theory i think it's super interesting

01:08:15.659 --> 01:08:19.819
I think the focus of the spotlight in music theory

01:08:19.819 --> 01:08:22.819
is probably what I would have an issue with.

01:08:23.319 --> 01:08:29.199
So I'm going to deepen that perspective a little

01:08:29.199 --> 01:08:32.439
bit. And I'm not saying that you're wrong. I

01:08:32.439 --> 01:08:39.300
probably am. No, no, no. It's subjective. No,

01:08:39.479 --> 01:08:44.260
it's your perception is colored. in a very purposeful

01:08:44.260 --> 01:08:48.079
way by the music theory establishment, because

01:08:48.079 --> 01:08:52.100
in pedagogical terms, the answer to what you're

01:08:52.100 --> 01:08:57.260
saying is yes. Yes, that is the focus. Common

01:08:57.260 --> 01:09:02.340
practice harmony of the Western white male European

01:09:02.340 --> 01:09:07.720
tradition. The answer to that is yes. Now, I

01:09:07.720 --> 01:09:10.590
would encourage you, Amelia, someday to... I

01:09:10.590 --> 01:09:12.390
mean, this next one's going to be in Minneapolis,

01:09:12.409 --> 01:09:15.250
so maybe it won't be, you know, that's kind of

01:09:15.250 --> 01:09:19.430
a plane flight. I'm thinking we're talking about

01:09:19.430 --> 01:09:21.970
theory conferences. Yeah. I'm thinking about

01:09:21.970 --> 01:09:23.909
it. I'm thinking about it. Okay. I encourage

01:09:23.909 --> 01:09:27.710
you to come because I believe you will be more

01:09:27.710 --> 01:09:32.710
encouraged by the music theory academia because

01:09:32.710 --> 01:09:36.670
the wonderful part of music theory, in my opinion.

01:09:38.250 --> 01:09:41.569
There's many beautiful parts to it. There were

01:09:41.569 --> 01:09:46.350
sessions on queer music, feminist studies, reggaeton,

01:09:46.729 --> 01:09:51.149
new living composers, disabilities in pedagogy,

01:09:51.329 --> 01:09:57.109
accessibility. Music theory goes so far beyond

01:09:57.109 --> 01:10:01.430
how it's represented in the pedagogical classroom

01:10:01.430 --> 01:10:06.729
for learning voice leading and learning. the

01:10:06.729 --> 01:10:09.930
very boilerplate elements of music. Now, in some

01:10:09.930 --> 01:10:13.029
ways, that's utilitarian. You know, if I want

01:10:13.029 --> 01:10:17.109
to show a cadential 6 -4, probably the easiest

01:10:17.109 --> 01:10:21.909
way to do it is take a slow movement of a Mozart

01:10:21.909 --> 01:10:25.449
piano sonata with the Alberti bass, and you can

01:10:25.449 --> 01:10:29.409
clearly see the suspensions going from 5 -6 -4

01:10:29.409 --> 01:10:33.430
to 5... five, five, three, you know, so part

01:10:33.430 --> 01:10:36.090
of it's utilitarian. Part of it is historical

01:10:36.090 --> 01:10:39.829
exclusion. And part of it is part of it is narrow

01:10:39.829 --> 01:10:44.689
mindedness as well. So you're not wrong, but

01:10:44.689 --> 01:10:48.590
there is more to it than that. I just, yeah,

01:10:48.770 --> 01:10:52.970
I, and I also, before, before you respond, I

01:10:52.970 --> 01:10:56.729
was also surprised coming from UF and the more

01:10:56.729 --> 01:11:00.220
time I've spent at FSU or just away from UF,

01:11:00.300 --> 01:11:03.100
the more I appreciate the structure of the program

01:11:03.100 --> 01:11:07.979
at UF, that so much of it is composer -led, I

01:11:07.979 --> 01:11:10.720
found, I'm going to be a little ballsy here,

01:11:10.880 --> 01:11:14.720
I found that within my cohort, I had the largest

01:11:14.720 --> 01:11:17.520
knowledge of contemporary composers out of anyone,

01:11:17.699 --> 01:11:20.760
because, like, to me, talking about Caroline

01:11:20.760 --> 01:11:23.840
Shaw is at the same level as talking about Brahms.

01:11:24.239 --> 01:11:26.819
Literally, yeah. They're the same. And I love

01:11:26.819 --> 01:11:30.399
her. I don't love Brahms, though. Well, it's

01:11:30.399 --> 01:11:33.619
a whole other, but like the idea of like compositional

01:11:33.619 --> 01:11:35.840
titans or something like that. Yes, exactly,

01:11:36.020 --> 01:11:39.229
yeah. She's the tip of the iceberg. Yeah, and

01:11:39.229 --> 01:11:41.829
so when someone says they don't know Partita

01:11:41.829 --> 01:11:45.350
for six voices, or is it eight? Eight. Sorry.

01:11:45.590 --> 01:11:47.909
When someone says they don't know Partita for

01:11:47.909 --> 01:11:50.289
eight voices, I'm like, what's wrong with you?

01:11:50.729 --> 01:11:55.510
Yeah, I want a Pulitzer. Yeah, and or if someone

01:11:55.510 --> 01:11:58.010
doesn't know who Jennifer Higdon is, I'm like,

01:11:58.090 --> 01:12:01.689
really? You sure about that? Yeah. Which in that

01:12:01.689 --> 01:12:03.930
way, that's kind of narrow -minded in our sense,

01:12:04.029 --> 01:12:08.180
but it just is the reflection. Because in my

01:12:08.180 --> 01:12:10.899
opinion, it's easy to get that classical canon

01:12:10.899 --> 01:12:13.659
repertoire in your head because it's offered

01:12:13.659 --> 01:12:16.779
everywhere. But I appreciate the initiatives

01:12:16.779 --> 01:12:20.359
of the composition professors at UF to get that

01:12:20.359 --> 01:12:25.539
new music in our head. I mean, this podcast wouldn't

01:12:25.539 --> 01:12:29.189
exist without that kind of stuff. Yeah. But anyways,

01:12:29.289 --> 01:12:31.970
so I just wanted to say that, uh, go Gators in

01:12:31.970 --> 01:12:35.289
that sense. Yes. But go on. Chomp. Yeah. Chomp.

01:12:35.350 --> 01:12:38.489
Yeah. I, I don't remember exactly what I was

01:12:38.489 --> 01:12:41.109
going to say like a minute ago, but. Sorry about

01:12:41.109 --> 01:12:46.770
that. No, you're fine. I think it's the, I just

01:12:46.770 --> 01:12:50.890
percentage of like what, like the common practice

01:12:50.890 --> 01:12:53.949
area as a percentage of a music theory curriculum

01:12:53.949 --> 01:12:58.689
on the whole, it's just like. so skewed Mozart

01:12:58.689 --> 01:13:02.729
is not even I would say not even regularly performed

01:13:02.729 --> 01:13:06.250
in like orchestras truly like I don't have statistics

01:13:06.250 --> 01:13:10.329
on that but all I can say I've been playing professionally

01:13:10.329 --> 01:13:15.029
with two orchestras for like four seasons and

01:13:15.029 --> 01:13:18.289
I don't think I've ever played a Mozart symphony

01:13:18.289 --> 01:13:23.529
ever like and I we played Beethoven that's probably

01:13:23.529 --> 01:13:28.149
the earliest we go I think we did um I would

01:13:28.149 --> 01:13:31.350
imagine some Bach, like the Brandenburg. Oh,

01:13:31.510 --> 01:13:35.630
okay. Maybe not. Okay. They do Messiah like every

01:13:35.630 --> 01:13:38.489
Christmas. That's standard. I don't know if people

01:13:38.489 --> 01:13:40.729
really, really hear it anymore, but it's standard.

01:13:40.949 --> 01:13:44.170
Well, they do the hallelujah chorus. Yeah. No,

01:13:44.270 --> 01:13:49.000
I know places that do the full Messiah. It's

01:13:49.000 --> 01:13:51.640
a good piece, but man, that's a lot. And every

01:13:51.640 --> 01:13:54.840
year, is the demand really there? Maybe it is.

01:13:54.880 --> 01:13:58.699
Maybe I'm wrong. I haven't played that gig. Yeah,

01:13:58.840 --> 01:14:01.899
it's just like, it feels so imbalanced. And like,

01:14:01.920 --> 01:14:04.659
what is like, it feels like a lot of what we

01:14:04.659 --> 01:14:08.899
do, or what now, I guess I'm not the we, what

01:14:08.899 --> 01:14:13.989
we have students do in music theory, like. With

01:14:13.989 --> 01:14:16.850
part writing, that feels like it should be the

01:14:16.850 --> 01:14:20.069
more advanced music theory classes. Like, what

01:14:20.069 --> 01:14:23.909
is the application of this for a regular, like,

01:14:23.989 --> 01:14:28.350
performance major? Or, I mean, a music BA student?

01:14:28.510 --> 01:14:31.010
Like, what is, it just doesn't make sense to

01:14:31.010 --> 01:14:33.970
me to be that particular for something that is,

01:14:34.109 --> 01:14:37.149
for the most part, never going to be useful outside

01:14:37.149 --> 01:14:40.069
of a music theory classroom. And, you know, you

01:14:40.069 --> 01:14:41.829
can talk about harmonic regressions, that's super

01:14:41.829 --> 01:14:45.600
useful. Do people care about perfect fifths anymore?

01:14:45.819 --> 01:14:49.840
I mean, do we? Like in pop music, is it cared

01:14:49.840 --> 01:14:54.020
about? I don't think so. Definitely not in contemporary

01:14:54.020 --> 01:14:57.619
composition. Like it's, who cares? You mean parallel

01:14:57.619 --> 01:15:00.420
fifths? Is that what I, not, oh, perfect fifths.

01:15:00.420 --> 01:15:03.180
Sorry, yes, parallel fifths. Sorry, yes, parallel

01:15:03.180 --> 01:15:05.840
perfect fifths. Yeah, no, we love perfect fifths.

01:15:06.060 --> 01:15:09.420
But parallel fifths, who cares? Like that feels

01:15:09.420 --> 01:15:14.289
like to me, that needs to be. an upper division

01:15:14.289 --> 01:15:17.390
upper undergraduate coursework thing like that

01:15:17.390 --> 01:15:20.130
does not need to be in the first four semesters

01:15:20.130 --> 01:15:23.890
of music theory and yet it takes up so much of

01:15:23.890 --> 01:15:28.630
it and you rarely i mean get to contemporary

01:15:28.630 --> 01:15:32.489
stuff which like i don't know i feel like there's

01:15:32.489 --> 01:15:35.369
something 20th century and beyond on almost every

01:15:35.369 --> 01:15:41.390
concert i play yeah that's my take i i will I

01:15:41.390 --> 01:15:44.250
I'm half and half devil's advocate because part

01:15:44.250 --> 01:15:47.510
of me is like, yeah, that sucks. Uh, let's move

01:15:47.510 --> 01:15:51.369
on because you know, my personal research is

01:15:51.369 --> 01:15:54.649
in, you have to say this, but it's so broad.

01:15:54.750 --> 01:15:57.369
It barely means anything like contemporary classical

01:15:57.369 --> 01:16:01.510
or contemporary music. Um, writing a proposal

01:16:01.510 --> 01:16:03.449
right now for a piece that was just written a

01:16:03.449 --> 01:16:07.170
couple years ago, but, and also rap and hip hop.

01:16:07.520 --> 01:16:10.220
So certainly not in the idioms that you're talking

01:16:10.220 --> 01:16:13.039
about, or I'm not versed in the, you know, in

01:16:13.039 --> 01:16:15.239
that sort of idioms, but a lot of it comes down

01:16:15.239 --> 01:16:20.460
to practicality. Now, I would argue also in support

01:16:20.460 --> 01:16:23.300
of what you're saying, that there are better

01:16:23.300 --> 01:16:27.260
choices of similar idioms. How about if we're

01:16:27.260 --> 01:16:30.720
going to talk about late chromaticism, why don't

01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:33.500
we talk about William Grant Still instead of

01:16:33.500 --> 01:16:37.180
Brahms? If we're going to talk about implementing

01:16:37.180 --> 01:16:44.500
folk idioms, why not Amy Beach instead of Bartok?

01:16:44.600 --> 01:16:48.659
You know, just there's more diverse and a little

01:16:48.659 --> 01:16:53.050
bit more recent, although those are. Over a hundred

01:16:53.050 --> 01:16:55.289
years, both of those over a hundred years ago.

01:16:55.710 --> 01:16:59.130
Slightly more recent ideas with that. But yes,

01:16:59.289 --> 01:17:02.329
typically newer composition is relegated to the

01:17:02.329 --> 01:17:05.590
post -tonal world, which is non -prescriptive

01:17:05.590 --> 01:17:10.270
and very general. It's as if tonality died when

01:17:10.270 --> 01:17:13.489
Schoenberg wrote those 12 notes in a row. Literally.

01:17:14.590 --> 01:17:18.210
Yeah, I think obviously you still have to cover

01:17:18.210 --> 01:17:21.109
that material, but I think to the extent that

01:17:21.109 --> 01:17:26.100
we do it, like the exact imitation of chorale

01:17:26.100 --> 01:17:30.380
style part writing. Like I just, it can be illustrative

01:17:30.380 --> 01:17:33.000
a couple of times. I just don't, I don't know.

01:17:33.079 --> 01:17:36.359
I think we could free up a lot of time to cover

01:17:36.359 --> 01:17:42.159
a lot more of like more contemporary, like compositional

01:17:42.159 --> 01:17:45.020
techniques. I'm very sympathetic to that. I mean,

01:17:45.039 --> 01:17:47.659
you can, you can get as hung up on something

01:17:47.659 --> 01:17:51.800
as, for example, The textbook that I went through

01:17:51.800 --> 01:17:55.819
my undergrad theory programs with said that this

01:17:55.819 --> 01:17:57.899
is such a small example, but it's illustrative

01:17:57.899 --> 01:18:02.899
of this, is that the diminished seven in a scale

01:18:02.899 --> 01:18:06.800
could be the chord built off of it. The diminished

01:18:06.800 --> 01:18:10.680
seven could be a functional dominant going to

01:18:10.680 --> 01:18:13.939
tonic, and that could create a cadential movement.

01:18:14.539 --> 01:18:20.239
And I got a big rash of... about that in my masters

01:18:20.239 --> 01:18:23.420
and i understand why i understand the theory

01:18:23.420 --> 01:18:27.699
as to why but it was very no that is completely

01:18:27.699 --> 01:18:31.920
wrong and i'm thinking but if you look at this

01:18:31.920 --> 01:18:35.119
really even i'm not even pulling out like something

01:18:35.119 --> 01:18:37.060
that was written in the past hundred years but

01:18:37.060 --> 01:18:40.279
if you pull out hell i don't mean i even tell

01:18:40.279 --> 01:18:43.500
them on maybe like you pull out like music does

01:18:43.500 --> 01:18:47.699
treat it as a dominant and it's like well Not

01:18:47.699 --> 01:18:51.899
in this, this, this, this, this, this qualifier.

01:18:52.100 --> 01:18:56.319
And we're learning that. Yeah, not in the specific

01:18:56.319 --> 01:18:58.720
type of piece we're trying to copy right now.

01:18:58.859 --> 01:19:02.840
Yes. And then asterisks, even within that context,

01:19:02.880 --> 01:19:06.300
this doesn't fully work this way. But we're going

01:19:06.300 --> 01:19:10.239
to learn that. And so I still find value in part

01:19:10.239 --> 01:19:14.579
writing and that element of pedagogy. But yes,

01:19:14.800 --> 01:19:18.359
the rigidness to a standard that quite frankly

01:19:18.359 --> 01:19:22.100
hardly ever existed in the first place. Exactly.

01:19:22.180 --> 01:19:25.539
Is not good. And then it has implications of

01:19:25.539 --> 01:19:29.779
a non -diverse curriculum, exclusionary, focusing

01:19:29.779 --> 01:19:32.039
only on a very small amount of white European

01:19:32.039 --> 01:19:36.720
men. All of those things beget that narrow -mindedness.

01:19:36.880 --> 01:19:41.399
And also like the concept of composition is capable

01:19:41.399 --> 01:19:45.760
of being right or wrong. yeah like it's art like

01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:48.520
i i it just feels yeah what we were talking about

01:19:48.520 --> 01:19:51.899
with the like separation from the music that's

01:19:51.899 --> 01:19:56.039
what that feels a lot like to me like i i will

01:19:56.039 --> 01:19:58.439
give small again i keep defending i will give

01:19:58.439 --> 01:20:01.960
small defense it is hard to make homework where

01:20:01.960 --> 01:20:04.039
you can say everything is right and everything

01:20:04.039 --> 01:20:08.380
is wrong to be fair to be fair to teachers but

01:20:08.380 --> 01:20:11.420
yeah it does beget that kind of thinking that

01:20:11.420 --> 01:20:14.319
there is a right and wrong music yeah and in

01:20:14.319 --> 01:20:17.239
high school i had a friend i wasn't i didn't

01:20:17.239 --> 01:20:21.319
take ap music theory i took ib music um and i

01:20:21.319 --> 01:20:23.140
didn't have time for ap music theory so one of

01:20:23.140 --> 01:20:27.239
my friends took ap music theory and i i respected

01:20:27.239 --> 01:20:29.420
her like crazy like she was a phenomenal pianist

01:20:29.420 --> 01:20:33.100
and she um I had her look over one of my pieces

01:20:33.100 --> 01:20:34.739
one time and she was like, oh, you can't do this

01:20:34.739 --> 01:20:38.119
because I took that as gospel. I was like, oh,

01:20:38.159 --> 01:20:40.779
I can't do this thing. Like I can't have an interval

01:20:40.779 --> 01:20:43.779
of a seventh, like, you know, melodically or

01:20:43.779 --> 01:20:46.180
something like that. I don't even know if that's

01:20:46.180 --> 01:20:48.920
exactly what it was. Or like the, what is it?

01:20:48.939 --> 01:20:51.239
You can't have an augmented second melodically.

01:20:51.399 --> 01:20:55.420
I don't think it's like explained to students

01:20:55.420 --> 01:20:59.270
well enough that it is. a practice that is to

01:20:59.270 --> 01:21:02.989
emulate a specific type of composition. It is

01:21:02.989 --> 01:21:08.270
not like necessary if you are actually writing

01:21:08.270 --> 01:21:11.949
your own music. I, yeah, I, I think there is

01:21:11.949 --> 01:21:14.689
a, and this, do you want to talk about generalizations?

01:21:14.909 --> 01:21:19.869
I think there is this historical laziness in

01:21:19.869 --> 01:21:23.529
the effort to explain to students because like

01:21:23.529 --> 01:21:26.920
in that case of, Oh, you shouldn't do this. I

01:21:26.920 --> 01:21:29.359
would qualify if I was your friend at that time

01:21:29.359 --> 01:21:33.859
in high school. I would say, if you want to accomplish

01:21:33.859 --> 01:21:40.739
X, you should not do Y. Or this seventh is not

01:21:40.739 --> 01:21:44.340
good because it's creating this, whatever this

01:21:44.340 --> 01:21:47.659
is. If you want that element in the music, cool,

01:21:47.739 --> 01:21:51.369
fine. have it but the reason why you don't want

01:21:51.369 --> 01:21:54.010
this and we can use this really old music as

01:21:54.010 --> 01:21:56.930
an example of why this tension and release works

01:21:56.930 --> 01:22:00.829
so well that's why our ears like it because it

01:22:00.829 --> 01:22:02.869
works so well but if that's not what you want

01:22:02.869 --> 01:22:08.010
that's cool uh but yeah the the phrase this is

01:22:08.010 --> 01:22:11.149
a wrong and bad it should be this is wrong and

01:22:11.149 --> 01:22:14.470
bad if that's what you're trying to accomplish

01:22:14.470 --> 01:22:18.020
which is A difficult sentence to put together

01:22:18.020 --> 01:22:21.479
for freshmen in college, I will say. And I don't

01:22:21.479 --> 01:22:24.000
blame my friend at all. She was in high school

01:22:24.000 --> 01:22:27.300
AP music theory. It was taught by the choir teacher.

01:22:28.260 --> 01:22:34.659
They're not explaining it well. Yeah, if you

01:22:34.659 --> 01:22:37.859
want to be emulating Bach, this is how you do

01:22:37.859 --> 01:22:40.439
that. If you want to be writing a Bach chorale,

01:22:40.720 --> 01:22:44.539
this is how you do that. But yeah, I don't know.

01:22:44.859 --> 01:22:48.159
I will say, Amelia, this is a conversation and

01:22:48.159 --> 01:22:50.840
debate that happens all the time, fervently,

01:22:50.840 --> 01:22:53.720
even in the highest echelons of music theory

01:22:53.720 --> 01:22:58.539
debate. So it's small and large scale. I certainly

01:22:58.539 --> 01:23:01.039
don't have the answers. And I don't know how

01:23:01.039 --> 01:23:04.319
I feel about all of it, especially after, you

01:23:04.319 --> 01:23:06.420
know, I'll say one of the biggest difficulties

01:23:06.420 --> 01:23:11.800
of teaching a songwriting class is teaching beginner.

01:23:12.470 --> 01:23:16.329
music theory, but it not be common practice is

01:23:16.329 --> 01:23:20.489
really, really difficult. It's like, it's like,

01:23:20.550 --> 01:23:22.949
you know, in pop music, it's like, so I'm teaching

01:23:22.949 --> 01:23:26.090
you the idea of dominant and tonic. Obviously

01:23:26.090 --> 01:23:30.510
tonic is one and dominant is five, but also in

01:23:30.510 --> 01:23:33.609
pop music, four can be dominant and also the

01:23:33.609 --> 01:23:37.829
flat major seven. And also, and so it's like,

01:23:38.010 --> 01:23:43.529
um, that's really hard to do. Yeah, yeah, I can

01:23:43.529 --> 01:23:46.989
imagine. Yeah. So certainly don't have the answers

01:23:46.989 --> 01:23:48.829
for that. But that sort of debate and discussion

01:23:48.829 --> 01:23:52.590
is where the fun can be had, fun can be had,

01:23:52.750 --> 01:23:57.390
and so on. So back on yourself, Amelia, we are

01:23:57.390 --> 01:24:01.449
coming to the close of this podcast. And what's

01:24:01.449 --> 01:24:04.630
next for you? What do you got coming up? Finishing

01:24:04.630 --> 01:24:09.720
out my degree. deciding if i want to do a doctorate

01:24:09.720 --> 01:24:15.159
um uh this summer i'm specifically doing two

01:24:15.159 --> 01:24:17.500
festivals i'm doing the iceberg institute in

01:24:17.500 --> 01:24:19.500
orlando and i'm writing a piece for that for

01:24:19.500 --> 01:24:23.140
the camp ensemble um which i just submitted a

01:24:23.140 --> 01:24:26.500
draft of and then i'm doing the new york new

01:24:26.500 --> 01:24:30.199
music intensive writing a cello solo for gabriel

01:24:30.199 --> 01:24:33.520
cabezas from why music which i'm very excited

01:24:33.520 --> 01:24:37.359
for yeah Wonderful. What is your, if I may pry,

01:24:37.659 --> 01:24:41.760
what is your hang up with DMA or not? Oh, I don't

01:24:41.760 --> 01:24:45.420
know. I think I'm very excited. I did get an

01:24:45.420 --> 01:24:49.239
assistantship for the fall. Yay. So I feel like

01:24:49.239 --> 01:24:52.960
what's been making me wishy -washy about it a

01:24:52.960 --> 01:24:56.520
little bit is like, do I really enjoy doing this?

01:24:56.699 --> 01:25:01.090
I am a lot of times. Composing or being in academia?

01:25:01.470 --> 01:25:04.329
No, like being a professor. Like, is this like

01:25:04.329 --> 01:25:07.590
really what I feel I need to be doing? Because

01:25:07.590 --> 01:25:09.949
it's a lot of work if I just get through a doctorate

01:25:09.949 --> 01:25:12.550
and I'm like, do I like this that much? Not really.

01:25:12.930 --> 01:25:15.189
Like, so I think having the teaching experience

01:25:15.189 --> 01:25:18.409
will help me really solidify that. And yeah,

01:25:18.529 --> 01:25:21.210
I feel like it's just a very big decision to

01:25:21.210 --> 01:25:24.770
make. So I have to really think about it. I,

01:25:24.770 --> 01:25:28.979
yeah. That's pretty much it. I had another thought

01:25:28.979 --> 01:25:31.939
in my brain and it went away. Fair enough. Fair

01:25:31.939 --> 01:25:34.579
enough. Well, you have actually, you know what?

01:25:34.619 --> 01:25:36.619
I would say you have plenty of time to decide,

01:25:36.760 --> 01:25:39.439
but you really don't. I don't. Because applications

01:25:39.439 --> 01:25:43.779
for any PhD or DMA program are due typically

01:25:43.779 --> 01:25:46.920
December 1st, if not a little bit sooner. So

01:25:46.920 --> 01:25:51.920
get thinking. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I'll have

01:25:51.920 --> 01:25:56.989
something like. coalescing over summer but I

01:25:56.989 --> 01:25:59.149
think once I actually like have an opportunity

01:25:59.149 --> 01:26:01.770
to teach at a collegiate level that'll probably

01:26:01.770 --> 01:26:04.289
be like a pretty deciding factor for me. There's

01:26:04.289 --> 01:26:07.930
also, I mean, tons of people do it. But especially

01:26:07.930 --> 01:26:10.270
in composition, a lot of people take time between

01:26:10.270 --> 01:26:13.689
their master's and DMA. So it's not, I mean,

01:26:13.689 --> 01:26:16.829
the majority of the DMA students at Florida State,

01:26:16.989 --> 01:26:21.050
I'm just going to say, did not go straight from

01:26:21.050 --> 01:26:24.369
master's to doctorate. So especially in composition,

01:26:24.649 --> 01:26:27.810
you can breathe a little bit. Yeah, I think that

01:26:27.810 --> 01:26:29.949
will probably end up happening. But then it's

01:26:29.949 --> 01:26:33.699
like... Oh, do I want to move all my stuff out

01:26:33.699 --> 01:26:36.260
of my apartment in Tallahassee just to be somewhere

01:26:36.260 --> 01:26:38.920
else for one year? All right. That's like a thousand

01:26:38.920 --> 01:26:42.140
dollars. That is true. That is true. I mean,

01:26:42.159 --> 01:26:45.140
I'm saying because I didn't get it. Well, okay,

01:26:45.220 --> 01:26:47.060
if anyone reads the blog post, you should know

01:26:47.060 --> 01:26:49.720
I did not get accepted into a PhD program for

01:26:49.720 --> 01:26:51.619
the following year. Boo -hoo on my part. They're

01:26:51.619 --> 01:26:54.520
stupid. Yeah, I know. They're all dumb idiots.

01:26:55.239 --> 01:26:57.420
I was about to say, I know they are, but I'm

01:26:57.420 --> 01:27:01.060
going to reapply. Yes. You all are beautiful

01:27:01.060 --> 01:27:03.880
people. I'm saying this, not Aaron. Thank you.

01:27:03.920 --> 01:27:06.340
Thank you for that qualifier. But I'm staying

01:27:06.340 --> 01:27:09.920
in Tallahassee with my fiance because why would

01:27:09.920 --> 01:27:14.479
that, like you said, moving expenses? Yeah. But

01:27:14.479 --> 01:27:18.340
I'll reapply the following year. I'm, of course,

01:27:18.340 --> 01:27:22.199
of course, if I was presented with any offer

01:27:22.199 --> 01:27:24.680
for the places I applied, I would have preferred

01:27:24.680 --> 01:27:28.840
to go there. But I'm not saying, oh, I'm happy

01:27:28.840 --> 01:27:32.300
all along. I didn't get accepted. But taking

01:27:32.300 --> 01:27:38.409
a year, I feel like. I have a lot, even just

01:27:38.409 --> 01:27:40.489
in the small amount of time after the semester,

01:27:40.810 --> 01:27:45.090
I feel like I have the mental space to grow a

01:27:45.090 --> 01:27:47.770
lot more now that I just have even just a little

01:27:47.770 --> 01:27:50.909
bit of time in between the two different degrees.

01:27:51.189 --> 01:27:55.890
So I think, I hope that I will end up getting

01:27:55.890 --> 01:28:00.090
more out of a PhD having a year in between than

01:28:00.090 --> 01:28:01.810
going straight into. Of course, I would have

01:28:01.810 --> 01:28:03.369
preferred to go straight into. I'm not going

01:28:03.369 --> 01:28:08.119
to lie with that. It's not fun, but. That maybe

01:28:08.119 --> 01:28:11.539
this year will provide a lot better results than

01:28:11.539 --> 01:28:15.479
if I just went straight in. Yeah. I think, you

01:28:15.479 --> 01:28:19.640
know, I think I am going to probably apply this

01:28:19.640 --> 01:28:23.479
cycle if I really had to think about it hard

01:28:23.479 --> 01:28:28.020
right now, like a gun to my head. But, you know,

01:28:28.039 --> 01:28:31.760
I took a one semester gap between my undergrad

01:28:31.760 --> 01:28:35.010
and my master's. And I felt like a different

01:28:35.010 --> 01:28:37.350
person when I started my master's. I was like,

01:28:37.390 --> 01:28:40.909
oh, my God, I'm doing the readings. I never did

01:28:40.909 --> 01:28:45.270
that in undergrad. I hope none of our undergrad

01:28:45.270 --> 01:28:49.670
professors are listening to this. Just for your

01:28:49.670 --> 01:28:53.289
class, I did the readings. Yes. Yeah. This is

01:28:53.289 --> 01:28:56.930
not about any professors listening if they are.

01:28:58.409 --> 01:29:00.449
It's okay. I'm sure Dr. Lee will understand.

01:29:00.949 --> 01:29:05.029
Yeah. I think I did do the readings for his class.

01:29:05.170 --> 01:29:08.270
Okay. So sorry, Dr. Richards. She didn't do yours.

01:29:09.270 --> 01:29:11.569
We didn't have a lot of readings for Dr. Richards.

01:29:11.789 --> 01:29:16.289
That's true. Yeah. But in any case, it felt very

01:29:16.289 --> 01:29:18.750
like rejuvenating. I was like, oh my God, I'm

01:29:18.750 --> 01:29:22.149
like an adult now and I want to be learning these

01:29:22.149 --> 01:29:26.189
things. But then again, it was also a lot more

01:29:26.189 --> 01:29:30.079
frustrating when I was like. not learning in

01:29:30.079 --> 01:29:34.979
some classes that will not be named um because

01:29:34.979 --> 01:29:38.119
i'm like i'm paying for this right now and i'm

01:29:38.119 --> 01:29:41.739
spending my time doing this yeah but you know

01:29:41.739 --> 01:29:45.739
that happens everywhere i'm sure yeah to a degree

01:29:45.739 --> 01:29:49.039
certainly yes yes and amelia what would be the

01:29:49.039 --> 01:29:51.220
best way for the audience to contact you with

01:29:51.220 --> 01:29:58.310
any comments or questions oh i Facebook or Instagram,

01:29:58.590 --> 01:30:03.510
which I believe you have access to. I will hopefully

01:30:03.510 --> 01:30:06.189
have a website soon. I've had the domain for

01:30:06.189 --> 01:30:14.529
like two years. Amelia, come on. But my problem

01:30:14.529 --> 01:30:17.270
is figuring out which hosting platform to use.

01:30:17.329 --> 01:30:19.529
So if anybody wants to reach out with recommendations,

01:30:20.029 --> 01:30:23.949
I am frugal and I want... the most out of my

01:30:23.949 --> 01:30:27.250
money for a web hosting platform and I can't

01:30:27.250 --> 01:30:31.130
decide. So that is my problem. Not to sound like

01:30:31.130 --> 01:30:35.270
a boilerplate YouTuber, but Squarespace is pretty

01:30:35.270 --> 01:30:39.609
good. But it's expensive. It is expensive and

01:30:39.609 --> 01:30:42.430
it requires a lot of work. I don't use it for

01:30:42.430 --> 01:30:45.510
my website because I use Podpage, which is a

01:30:45.510 --> 01:30:50.449
podcasting specific website. So it caters to

01:30:50.449 --> 01:30:54.189
like hosting media. But Squarespace is pretty

01:30:54.189 --> 01:30:56.409
good. I know it's expensive, but it's pretty

01:30:56.409 --> 01:30:59.390
good. Maybe now that I have this assistantship,

01:30:59.390 --> 01:31:03.010
I'll just have excess of cash. Oh, yeah. Oh,

01:31:03.069 --> 01:31:05.670
yeah. Yes. If there's one thing about graduate

01:31:05.670 --> 01:31:08.609
assistantships, it's an excess of cash. Well,

01:31:08.869 --> 01:31:13.430
you know, I won't have to be paying. I get nine

01:31:13.430 --> 01:31:17.609
credits waived, so I won't be paying $4 ,500

01:31:17.609 --> 01:31:22.810
a semester as I was previously. That will help

01:31:22.810 --> 01:31:27.350
at least. As you know, I understand. Yes. I understand

01:31:27.350 --> 01:31:31.050
that. Yes. All right. So, you know, this has

01:31:31.050 --> 01:31:33.510
been a great conversation, Amelia. I've loved

01:31:33.510 --> 01:31:36.409
having you on here. As we said earlier, I've

01:31:36.409 --> 01:31:39.010
known you for years. It's great to catch up a

01:31:39.010 --> 01:31:41.090
bit and talk about music and talk about your

01:31:41.090 --> 01:31:45.250
music, Vigil. A wonderful piece with a very personal

01:31:45.250 --> 01:31:47.550
story, which, again, I appreciate you sharing.

01:31:48.210 --> 01:31:52.489
But to end out this podcast. And leave this very

01:31:52.489 --> 01:31:55.090
open to you. If you were to say anything about

01:31:55.090 --> 01:31:58.869
music, life, composition, anything to the audience,

01:31:59.069 --> 01:32:03.069
what would that be? Well, I'm sure everybody

01:32:03.069 --> 01:32:05.930
here listening is a supporter of the arts, so

01:32:05.930 --> 01:32:09.489
I'm kind of speaking to the choir. But tell your

01:32:09.489 --> 01:32:13.939
family about... what's happening in the state

01:32:13.939 --> 01:32:17.439
of the world. And if they value the arts, if

01:32:17.439 --> 01:32:20.380
they like going to see musicals, if they go to

01:32:20.380 --> 01:32:23.880
orchestra concerts, if their kid is in a band

01:32:23.880 --> 01:32:26.279
program, if you have a sibling in a band program,

01:32:26.420 --> 01:32:30.560
get your family involved in advocating for the

01:32:30.560 --> 01:32:33.119
arts. That is what I would say I think is the

01:32:33.119 --> 01:32:35.560
most important thing happening right now. Because

01:32:35.560 --> 01:32:39.270
I think without the arts, we are not. human beings

01:32:39.270 --> 01:32:45.310
and i i don't know what else to say yeah that's

01:32:45.310 --> 01:32:47.850
that's very fair i just want to remind everybody

01:32:47.850 --> 01:32:52.229
let's say you don't care too much for academic

01:32:52.229 --> 01:32:54.750
music and you don't care too much for academia

01:32:54.750 --> 01:32:57.869
or the college system if you're someone who goes

01:32:57.869 --> 01:33:00.750
to yearly productions of the messiah as we were

01:33:00.750 --> 01:33:04.250
joking so true who do you think plays in those

01:33:04.250 --> 01:33:08.159
who do you think puts those on Art institutions,

01:33:08.479 --> 01:33:11.180
colleges, university students playing it, university

01:33:11.180 --> 01:33:15.199
graduates within it. So think a little bit beyond

01:33:15.199 --> 01:33:18.060
the veil when it comes to that. Or if you go

01:33:18.060 --> 01:33:20.840
see the Nutcracker, would you rather have a live

01:33:20.840 --> 01:33:24.220
orchestra or sound projected through speakers?

01:33:24.880 --> 01:33:28.140
Yes, it's not just anyone who comes up with those.

01:33:28.180 --> 01:33:31.159
It's people who get degrees, funding. and so

01:33:31.159 --> 01:33:33.539
on from the government, from art institutions,

01:33:33.779 --> 01:33:37.020
scholarship funds, and so on to go to these institutions

01:33:37.020 --> 01:33:39.300
to do that, to create the wonderful art that

01:33:39.300 --> 01:33:44.180
you enjoy and build memories from. Perfectly

01:33:44.180 --> 01:33:47.359
said. Not at all spiteful about the way things

01:33:47.359 --> 01:33:50.979
are going on. All right. Well, again, Amelia,

01:33:51.079 --> 01:33:53.319
thank you for coming on to the Theorist Composer

01:33:53.319 --> 01:33:56.520
Collaboration and for sharing your story, your

01:33:56.520 --> 01:33:59.779
father's story, and your piece. vigil it's been

01:33:59.779 --> 01:34:01.920
a great conversation thank you for coming on

01:34:01.920 --> 01:34:04.500
thank you for having me this has been so lovely

01:34:19.170 --> 01:34:21.729
Hello, this is Aaron again, and I want to thank

01:34:21.729 --> 01:34:24.130
you for listening to this episode of the Theorist

01:34:24.130 --> 01:34:26.289
-Composer Collaboration. I also want to give

01:34:26.289 --> 01:34:28.750
another big thank you to Amelia Ulrich and for

01:34:28.750 --> 01:34:32.159
sharing her piece. vigil. Amelia's contact info

01:34:32.159 --> 01:34:34.500
is listed in the description, and I would appreciate

01:34:34.500 --> 01:34:36.739
it if you could show her some support. For further

01:34:36.739 --> 01:34:39.119
updates and notifications on the Theorist Composer

01:34:39.119 --> 01:34:41.739
collaboration, make sure to follow our Instagram

01:34:41.739 --> 01:34:44.039
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01:34:44.039 --> 01:34:46.659
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01:34:49.960 --> 01:34:52.340
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01:34:52.340 --> 01:34:54.319
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01:34:54.319 --> 01:34:57.060
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01:34:57.060 --> 01:34:59.880
our Buy Me a Coffee page. All donations are highly

01:34:59.880 --> 01:35:02.359
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01:35:02.520 --> 01:35:04.699
listen to, and support the show are in the description.

01:35:05.039 --> 01:35:08.239
TCC episodes are posted every other week on Mondays,

01:35:08.239 --> 01:35:10.539
and don't miss our blog posts, which go live

01:35:10.539 --> 01:35:13.000
a few days after a new episode is added. Make

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01:35:17.020 --> 01:35:20.159
want to miss it. But, until then, this is Aaron,

01:35:20.319 --> 01:35:22.340
and thank you for joining the TCC.